Help protecting my flock (Mareks, Leuokosis)

[GingerGremlin]

I posted a thread last week on my Easter Egger hen Arthur who we thought had an eye infection, unfortunately we were wrong. Within four days she was completely paralyzed.

We took her to an avian vet and had to have her euthanized, they sent her off for a necropsy. The necropsy pointed towards either leuokosis or mareks, they are unsure which and the vet was going to look into further testing pricing and get back to me so we can have a more concrete answer on what's going on.

I sincerely hope I'm being paranoid but another of our Easter Eggers is acting odd, she's not as active and she's laying down with her tail feathers down a lot. I'm hoping shes just depressed now that Arthur is gone but I'm terrified. My entire flock has been exposed, we didn't separate Arthur until about day 3 because other than some eye issues she wasn't acting off at all.

Is there literally anything I can do to give them the upper hand in fighting this off? Any vitamin or medicine? The vet hasn't gotten back to me and I'm just spiraling.

They're on a 22% protein layer feed we get directly from a local farmer and we have always mixed a little oregano oil in with their water for a little boost to the immune system, lately we have also been putting in vitamin d3 with calcium citrate. We started when one of the girls laid a lash egg and just never stopped since they seemed to do so well on it and preferred the waterer with it in it. They are all vaccinated so I can't do anything on that front, I asked the farm store we bought them from as chicks and was told the hatchery vaccinated all chicks sent there before shipping.

I'm cleaning the coop more than usual and being pretty particular about it but I honestly feel like I'm fighting a losing battle knowing how contagious it is and how long Arthur was around the other girls before we separated her, not to mention the amount of wild birds in the area that I can't do anything about.

I know neither disease is curable but I can't watch anyone else go through what Arthur went through I've never seen anything so horrible. The only thing the vet mentioned to me was making sure they're vaccinated and that was done before I even got them so I'm hoping maybe other chicken keepers will have some info, literally anything else I can do to help them.

I added the necropsy info in case anyone can give me more specific information based in the findings, especially since I'm emotionally shot right now I'm worried I'll miss something. This year has been so hard on the girls I feel like I'm failing them.

 

[2ndTink]

I'm so sorry you are dealing with this. There are some good articles and threads on here regarding Mareks. There is no cure for Mareks, but there have been some studies on Baicalin, give that a search here on BYC and online.

Here is a link to RAL, they do PCR testing on poultry, https://www.vetdna.com/

You can order sample collection kits and test your current bird who may be showing symptoms. They offer a Lympho Panel of three tests thay cause tumors in chickens, it does need to be overnighted though.

I had Mareks diagnosed in my flock and I 100% understand the reeling feeling. There are several other members on here who also have Mareks in their flock, you will have support here! For me the first few months were definitely the toughest

 

[GingerGremlin]

I'm so sorry you are dealing with this. There are some good articles and threads on here regarding Mareks. There is no cure for Mareks, but there have been some studies on Baicalin, give that a search here on BYC and online.

Here is a link to RAL, they do PCR testing on poultry, https://www.vetdna.com/

You can order sample collection kits and test your current bird who may be showing symptoms. They offer a Lympho Panel of three tests thay cause tumors in chickens, it does need to be overnighted though.

I had Mareks diagnosed in my flock and I 100% understand the reeling feeling. There are several other members on here who also have Mareks in their flock, you will have support here! For me the first few months were definitely the toughest

Thank you so much! This whole situation has been a nightmare, I understand there is no cure which is infuriating to me, at this point I just want to make sure I'm doing whatever I can to help them, I will be looking into these.

The vet we went to got back to me and essentially told me there's nothing I can do except cull the entire flock and start over and I am not willing to do that if there's a chance they can have happy and somewhat healthy lives they deserve better than that.

Was your flock able to overcome it and at least live relatively normal and happy lives?

 

[2ndTink]

Thank you so much! This whole situation has been a nightmare, I understand there is no cure which is infuriating to me, at this point I just want to make sure I'm doing whatever I can to help them, I will be looking into these.

The vet we went to got back to me and essentially told me there's nothing I can do except cull the entire flock and start over and I am not willing to do that if there's a chance they can have happy and somewhat healthy lives they deserve better than that.

Was your flock able to overcome it and at least live relatively normal and happy lives?

I'm only 8 months into the diagnosis, 10 months into symptomatic birds so I'm still early in this journey. I spoke to the state vet, multiple breeders, read so many articles and peer reviewed studies and tried to make as much sense of things as I could.

So far things are "ok" not good, but we're making it. I've lost almost all my unvaccinated silkies. No symptomatic losses of layer hens, and I even had the 2 older layers I PCR tested come back negative. It was also recommended by a few people to me to cull my whole flock and start over. But, just because you have Mareks in your flock doesn't mean they are all going to keel over right now. From what I've read, birds can carry it and never show symptoms, and they may not live as long as a non-infected bird. I've chosen to keep my flock, deal with symptomatic birds as they pop up, hatch and vaccinate the chicks and see how things go.

Of all the chicks I hatched I've only lost 1 with Mareks symptoms. Just a couple other losses but I can't say they were Mareks, maybe Mareks was underlying? I don't know, but 1 out of 70 + chicks isn't bad. I have a closed flock, the birds I don't keep as layers or breeders are being processed. The only way off the property is in a freezer bag. It's not easy for me, but my desire to chase my dreams is strong. So far things are going ok, but if they ever crash apart, I think I'll get ducks

If I were you, I'd get the PCR testing done, confirm exactly what you are dealing with. Mareks would be a forever thing, you could keep your current flock and once they are all gone, sanitize everything, maybe stay chicken-less for a year or two and start back up with vaccinated chicks. If it is ALV, that dies off quickly in the environment, so same deal, you could keep your current flock, allow them to naturally go to zero, sanitize and restart your flock, the ALV should be completely gone.

ALV transfers through the egg to chicks so you wouldn't want to hatch from an ALV positive flock. Marek's small upside, is thay it doesn't pass to the chick through the egg. So you could hatch, vaccinate, isolate, ans reintroduce chicks that way.

How many chickens do you have in your flock now? And how old? Have you added an birds recently? Any new neighbors that just got chickens?

Verify all my info here for yourself as I remember things in general terms and not exactly... mareks typically incubates 3 to 4 weeks in the host before making them sick were you would see symptoms, mareks usually shows up in chicks from 3 or 4 weeks old to around 22 weeks. Yours being 2 years old is interesting, either it's a new infection or some stress triggered the progression?


Back to my flock, yes, they are living their best lives possible, will they be as long lived as a non-exposed stock, maybe not. But they are well fed, cared for, and loved while they are here. They get to do chicken things and eat bugs and grass and provide us with eggs and meat. If my vaccinated chicks were having a lot of issues, I'd feel differently, I will not hatch and vaccinate just to have then suffer and die, but so far the vaccine seems to be protecting my chickens, even the silkies!

 

[2ndTink]

Oh, and I need to clarify, I'm not saying you should allow your current flock to go to zero without adding new birds, it's just one option.

The options are basically
1 - cull everyone
2 - allow the flock to naturally die off over the next hopefully long years
3 - add vaccinated chicks if it is Mareks

 

[GingerGremlin]

I'm only 8 months into the diagnosis, 10 months into symptomatic birds so I'm still early in this journey. I spoke to the state vet, multiple breeders, read so many articles and peer reviewed studies and tried to make as much sense of things as I could.

So far things are "ok" not good, but we're making it. I've lost almost all my unvaccinated silkies. No symptomatic losses of layer hens, and I even had the 2 older layers I PCR tested come back negative. It was also recommended by a few people to me to cull my whole flock and start over. But, just because you have Mareks in your flock doesn't mean they are all going to keel over right now. From what I've read, birds can carry it and never show symptoms, and they may not live as long as a non-infected bird. I've chosen to keep my flock, deal with symptomatic birds as they pop up, hatch and vaccinate the chicks and see how things go.

Of all the chicks I hatched I've only lost 1 with Mareks symptoms. Just a couple other losses but I can't say they were Mareks, maybe Mareks was underlying? I don't know, but 1 out of 70 + chicks isn't bad. I have a closed flock, the birds I don't keep as layers or breeders are being processed. The only way off the property is in a freezer bag. It's not easy for me, but my desire to chase my dreams is strong. So far things are going ok, but if they ever crash apart, I think I'll get ducks

If I were you, I'd get the PCR testing done, confirm exactly what you are dealing with. Mareks would be a forever thing, you could keep your current flock and once they are all gone, sanitize everything, maybe stay chicken-less for a year or two and start back up with vaccinated chicks. If it is ALV, that dies off quickly in the environment, so same deal, you could keep your current flock, allow them to naturally go to zero, sanitize and restart your flock, the ALV should be completely gone.

ALV transfers through the egg to chicks so you wouldn't want to hatch from an ALV positive flock. Marek's small upside, is thay it doesn't pass to the chick through the egg. So you could hatch, vaccinate, isolate, ans reintroduce chicks that way.

How many chickens do you have in your flock now? And how old? Have you added an birds recently? Any new neighbors that just got chickens?

Verify all my info here for yourself as I remember things in general terms and not exactly... mareks typically incubates 3 to 4 weeks in the host before making them sick were you would see symptoms, mareks usually shows up in chicks from 3 or 4 weeks old to around 22 weeks. Yours being 2 years old is interesting, either it's a new infection or some stress triggered the progression?


Back to my flock, yes, they are living their best lives possible, will they be as long lived as a non-exposed stock, maybe not. But they are well fed, cared for, and loved while they are here. They get to do chicken things and eat bugs and grass and provide us with eggs and meat. If my vaccinated chicks were having a lot of issues, I'd feel differently, I will not hatch and vaccinate just to have then suffer and die, but so far the vaccine seems to be protecting my chickens, even the silkies!

We have 10 girls now, the big girls (our australorps) are 3 years and our Easter Eggers are 2, my sister and I raise them together our dream is to homestead someday so this is our foot in the door I suppose you could say.

We did just have some people build a house down the road and they do have chickens and I believe ducks so I guess that could be an exposure, it could have also come from our rooster we got him from a farmer who had extra and we needed one and he was so sweet, he died in his sleep a few months ago it was very sudden so he seems like the likely culprit now that I think about it but we had him for a while before he died, almost 6 months I believe and he wasn't showing any symptoms of anything he just dropped one night.

This year has been crazy stressful, the week before she got sick we had two chickens just disappear. We never found any blood or feathers so we're assuming fox maybe? But between our rooster and those two then this illness I would imagine they're about as stressed out as I am. The vet did tell us they have mites so we are treating for that currently and I ordered some predator mites to try and get ahead of any future infestations.

We're definitely getting further testing done one way or another, if nothing else this is going to be a rough lesson. We're trying to use it as an opportunity to learn everything we can even though it's hard. Since we have such a small flock now if it is Mareks I think your suggestion of letting the flock die down naturally then waiting a year or so before starting fresh will be the move.

Hearing your flock is doing well is so helpful to hear, thank you so much for all of this information. My biggest hang up was balancing giving them the best chance but not letting them suffer needlessly, since we've started so small and have only had chickens about 3 years now we're still in pet territory and not livestock yet so we know them each personally and their personalities, we really love them.

 

[2ndTink]

It will be good to confirm for sure what you are dealing with, but we'll continue here under the assumption it's Mareks.

Hmm, yes, the rooster could have been carrying Mareks, something could have triggered its progression, or he could have died from something else, maybe weakened by Mareks. There's no for sure what on knowing. The neighbors are also a possibility as Mareks can spread on the wind 3 to 5 miles

Another option IF you are up for it, in practicing for homesteading you could process your girls. Now, this is NOT easy for most people, me included. I 100% understand the girls being pets, I have over 100 pets, they still haven't made it into the livestock category, I adore my chickens! I have made the decision though to process several of my 3 year old laying hens and I'm replacing them with the pullets that I know are vaccinated.

You could also add some ducks, just kinda transition to them as your chicken flock decreases, stick to ducks for a year or two then start your chicken flock again. You have options!

 

[Themellowyellows]

@LaFleche
@Eggcessive

 

[GingerGremlin]

It will be good to confirm for sure what you are dealing with, but we'll continue here under the assumption it's Mareks.

Hmm, yes, the rooster could have been carrying Mareks, something could have triggered its progression, or he could have died from something else, maybe weakened by Mareks. There's no for sure what on knowing. The neighbors are also a possibility as Mareks can spread on the wind 3 to 5 miles

Another option IF you are up for it, in practicing for homesteading you could process your girls. Now, this is NOT easy for most people, me included. I 100% understand the girls being pets, I have over 100 pets, they still haven't made it into the livestock category, I adore my chickens! I have made the decision though to process several of my 3 year old laying hens and I'm replacing them with the pullets that I know are vaccinated.

You could also add some ducks, just kinda transition to them as your chicken flock decreases, stick to ducks for a year or two then start your chicken flock again. You have options!

The neighbor probably isn't even a full mile away....

I have had to euthanize one of our girls before so I at least know I can do it although I don't want to, I'll probably hold off on any decisions on that front until I have confirmation on what we're dealing with.

We need a better property but the plan is to one day raise meat birds and definitely ducks, on the property we're at now we just don't have that kind of room. We have one acre but a lot of it is taken up by building so we figured backyard chickens would be the perfect starting point for the land we have.

You've given me some great information and a lot to look into. Thank you so much!!

 

[LaFleche]

That sure is one grim necropsy result to deal with

With Mareks or ALV you should keep a closed flock meaning not selling or giving away any birds or eggs to prevent spreading the virus.
Do not visit country fairs or poultry exhibitions or other people with poultry as you will carry the virus not only on your boots/shoes but even on your clothes and hair.

Take your time to think about how to proceed as there are quite a lot of different not so virulent Mareks strains and birds over time often aquire resistance to the local ones.

When you see any of your birds getting sick, cull.
But there is no need to cull four entire flock as long as the birds act healthy.

Oregano oil, brewers yeast and calcium supplements plus vitamin D are all helpful as is keeping the coop and run dry, clean and well ventilated.