Hen to Hen Attacks

[MarkJr]

My youngsters were always shedding feathers until 8-9 months old. They never got the cranky, nasty, hateful ‘anything in my world that is off, I’ll kill’ attitude that my 3-5 year old broody gets.

 

[Chickenman MAN]

Fair Warning… there is a lot going on here. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

My flock consists of 9 hens (1 RIR, 2 Barred Rocks, 2 Ameraucana, 1 Buff Orpington, 1 Blue Langshan, 1 Buff Brahma , and 1 Dark Brahma, all 33 weeks old. All but the Dark Brahma are laying. 1 Barred Rock is the bossy one at the top of the pecking order. They all WERE getting along fine, however at times the Bossy Barred Rock will push others away from the food. Anytime I am petting another chicken she attacks that chicken as I am petting it. She also refuses to let me pet her at all. Now for the past four days I have noticed that my tallest chicken (Blue Langshan) has been spending most of the days in a nesting box alone. This Blue Langshan is one of the birds that if I give any attention to, the Bossy Barred Rock attacks. Today I was in the coop with the chickens and I was trying to coax the Blue Langshan to come out of the nesting box and when she hesitantly came out, a full on attack from the Bossy Barred Rock ensued, and the other Barred rock joined in the attack as well. I actually had to break it up with a broom at first and then I had to get down on the coop floor to get them off her. It honestly shook me to the core. I now have the Blue Langshan separated from the flock in the coop but they can still see each other. Any help with this Christmas Horror Story would be appreciated. I have listed more information below:

*Coop is a 9’ x 12’ Nantucket Shed, proper ventilation and windows, Assorted Roosts and 4 nesting boxes.

*Outside Chicken run is also 9’ x 12’ connected by an automatic door with roosts as well

Plenty of fresh water and food all day, Too many treats (that I will drastically decrease to 10% of their diet)consisting of scratch grains, fresh vegetables, meal worms, (corn and sunflower seeds now that the nights are in the 20’s and 30’s). I know protein is important they get 18% protein in the pellets and a little more in the meal worms. I have been noticing them filling up on the treats and less food being eaten due to the treats or could it be the Bossy Barred Rock not allowing others to get at it?

The Blue Langshan is pretty docile and I don’t think trying to move up in the pecking order, she is not sick, not blood or cuts anywhere. I originally thought she was broody being in the nesting box all that time. I also have noticed that there seems to be more than usual downy feathers around from different hens, and unless its me being paranoid I think some of the hens are looking thinner. Maybe not being allowed to go near the food by the Bossy one? Or is it possible for them to molt this time of the year in the cold???

I do not think its boredom as I give them things to occupy their time.

Should I have separated the Blue Langshan from the flock or removed the Bossy Barred Rock?

Thanks for any help.

I'd certainly remove the bossy barred rock. It'll make her less confident and the Langsham may stand up for herself in the future. Hope it goes well! I also double on the hiding space, high up (ish not so it can injure them) perches for the bullied to get away from the bully!

 

[abpatchy]

And to answer your molt question. 33 weeks shouldn’t molt their first winter. They should molt first time about a year and a half old.

I actually have 2 younger hens (hatch was March 8th 2020) that are molting! One just around the neck the other one started around the neck and then went on to the rest of her body. It can actually happen when they hatched early in the year and the weather is mild.

 

[abpatchy]

I would say take the barred rock out of the picture for a couple of weeks. The pecking order will have changed and her rank as well. If that doesn't help I would rehome her.

 

[Ridgerunner]

@HeatherKellyB
I've heard "juvenile molt" referenced before, but I'm not sure what age this refers to.

Good question. As they grow in size chicks outgrow their feathers, so they replace them. Can you imagine how silly a grown chicken would look if it still had the same feathers it had at five weeks of age? These molts are called juvenile molts.

Some people seem to believe that every chicken in the world regardless of breed or mix of breeds or mutts, climate, time of year, how they are fed, or how they are otherwise managed go through juvenile molts at exactly the same age. That has not been my experience. Some go through these juvenile molts earlier, some later. I butcher my cockerels to eat, it is pretty easy to tell if feathers are growing back from a juvenile molt or not. From what I've seen most are over their juvenile molt by about 4 to 5 months of age. At 33 weeks that's not a juvenile molt.

As to when they go through their first adult molt. Some people seem to believe that every chicken in the world regardless of breeding, climate, time of year they were hatched, how they are fed, or how they are otherwise managed go through their first adult molt at a specific age. Again, that has not been my experience. Many pullets will skip the molt their first fall/winter and continue laying until the following fall, even if you don't extend lights. Some go through a full-fledged molt their first fall/winter. Some seem to go through partial or mini-molts.

The main driving force behind an adult molt is the days getting shorter. That's the one most of us thing about. But other things can cause a full molt or a mini-molt, usually some kind of stress. This can be at any time of the year and any age. Stress like running out of water for an extended period of time, adding or removing chickens so the pecking order changes, moving them to a new location or making changes to their current quarters, maybe a predator attack or some event that really stressed them. Broody hens have been known to molt out of season when raising chicks. Stress can cause them to stop laying for a while without molting but sometimes it starts a mini or full molt.

@WIMIke finally more to your questions.

Anytime I am petting another chicken she attacks that chicken as I am petting it. She also refuses to let me pet her at all.

Should I have separated the Blue Langshan from the flock or removed the Bossy Barred Rock

I don't pet and cuddle my chickens so I have not seen this type of behavior. I've had a chicken take a real dislike to another chicken to the point of trying to kill it. But I have not seen that to the point where they attack any or all other chickens. It's hard to know what is going on in that chicken's brain, that don't use the same logic we do. My guess, and this is only a guess, is that she sees you petting them so they are submitting to you. Since she is the dominant one they should only submit to her so when they submit to you they must be punished. Usually I'd expect her to be attacking you, not the other chickens, but they don't all always act the same. Each one is an individual.

I think some of the hens are looking thinner. Maybe not being allowed to go near the food by the Bossy one? Or is it possible for them to molt this time of the year in the cold

Again, I butcher chickens to eat. When you remove the feathers the actual body can be pretty small. Some more than others, especially thick feathered birds. When they molt and lose feathers they can look like they have lost a lot of weight when really is it only feathers. With feathers flying around and them looking thinned I'd think it is a molt.

Now, what to do. I try to solve for the peace of the flock, not for any one individual chicken. Since I eat mine I have an easy solution for girls as well as boys but you have other options. My first attempt would be to isolate that bossy hen for a week or so, no contact at all with the flock. When you bring her back she might change her ways. I have had some success and some failures with isolation. It's worth a try.

If the problem were only between two specific chickens I'd consider removing the other hen, not necessarily the boss. If everyone gets along great without her then she is probably the problem. I've done that before with success. It's not always easy to know where the problem is. With that other BR joining in the attack I'd think about this. But with that hen attacking other hens when you pet them I'd think she is the problem.

If separation doesn't work you can continue as you are. It's possible no one will be injured and they will eventually work it out. I think another option is to permanently keep them separated, build a second coop and run. Have two flocks. Or sell or give one of them away. Getting rid of one does not necessarily mean killing or eating it.

Your coop and run seem to be big enough. I don't see anything in how you are feeding them that would explain this behavior except you might try separate feeding and watering stations. Widely separated like one outside and one inside so she can't keep them away from both at the same time.

Good luck! These things are not always easy to resolve but a peaceful flock is a lot less stressful to you and the chickens.

 

[Mrs. K]

Very good advice given above.

I would ask what does the run look like? Is it just an open rectangle? Can all of the birds see all of the birds 100% of the time? If so create some mini walls, add roosts, platforms, old chairs, ladders, sawhorses, maybe a wind shelter. Place feed stations so that a bird eating at one station cannot see a bird eating at another. The space will look more cluttered to you, but will be more interesting to all of your birds. Set ups like this allows birds to get away from each other.

Mrs K

 

[Cee]

I'd remove the bossy attacking one. I had a similar problem. Mine would also hang out by the nest boxes and not let anyone else go in to lay an egg or if they were already in the nestbox, she'd roust them out! I was finding eggs everywhere. She was pecking the sweeter tempered girls and the final straw was ripping off a part of someone's comb. I put her in another coop for a couple weeks.
When I put her back, she was so busy ducking and running from everybody (I guess they didn't remember her and they all jumped her) she didn't have time to be a jerk. She's somewhere in the middle of the pecking order and pretty nice now.

 

[Artichoke Lover]

In addition to what everyone else as saying I would consider adding more feeders and waters.

 

[WIMIke]

I would start by providing plenty of hiding places. hopefully Out of sight out of mind for miss bossy. Also be sure there are a number of feeders that have blind spots as well so the other birds can eat without bossy knowing it. Lastly, check the birds carefully for any signs of illness, mites, worms etc. animals sometimes know before we do when something is wrong and try to remove the weak link.

thanks for the advice, working on putting some distractions in the run, and another food and water station.

 

[WIMIke]

In addition to what everyone else as saying I would consider adding more feeders and waters.

thanks, will do.