How do you decide what percent protein to feed?

[saysfaa]

My feed mill offers only 16% for chick feed. I see a lot of messages about chicks needing 20% or 20 to 24% and bare minimum 18% protein levels. Does anyone know of research supporting the use of higher levels?

I found this, https://www.poultryworld.net/Nutrition/Articles/2016/11/Understanding-protein-requirements-2914798W/

which said 11% and 14% from hatch to 16 weeks resulted in slight differences compared to 17% and 20%. But you have to ask for more info on the study.

I also found this https://ir.library.oregonstate.edu/downloads/5m60qs20w

which says ideally 15 or 16% from 6 weeks old and 14 or 5% from about 14 weeks to lay. This is for layers; meaties have different needs. Slower growth is better for layers.

My chicks are 7 weeks and being raised as pets/layers. Slower growth is fine (preferred, actually) as long as it isn't so slow that their health is compromised.

 

[Tonyroo]

To me those percentage are the minimum standard that the manufacturer puts in. So to stay healthy I would think the chicken will know what it needs. If it over consumes the feed, then the ratio of the percentage is not high enough. And will end up looking frail and maybe in poor condition, which opens up to acquiring diseases unintentionally.

When starting with chicks, you want them at there peak health and stability. As they grow there organs are able to maintain proper functions. Just my thoughts on chicken feed.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

Or consider this -
https://scialert.net/fulltext/?doi=ajas.2016.165.174

In older studies, 18% protein feed was superior to 16% and lower protein feeds in weight of laying hen, earlier onset of lay, larger egg size, and greater frequency. Each of those results was small, but measurable. Combined, I think they are worthwhile.

Recently, there have been some conflicting studies, suggesting that low protein diets aren't inferior to high protein diets **IF** certain amino acids are supplemented in appropriate quantity - which is fine, I suppose, in a laboratory study, but a little more difficult in the field where a feed label may not clearly indicate which aminos are present in what quantities.

Support for that conclusion is a number of studies looking at alternative protein sources to soybean meal for chicken feed for use in developing countries, finding that while the crude protein levels may ultimately be the same, the changes in essential amino acids between soy and other sources does result in inferior performance, unless appropriately supplemented.

Further studies have found different impacts, for differing protein levels, at different life stages.

Since my local feeds don't disclose amino acid levels, and since I raise a mixed age, breed, gender flock including birds for meat, I chose 18% minimum, and my layers don't suffer for it. In the first weeks of life, I raise them on 24% to help them get a good start/bulk up, and have been pleased with the results - but at this point, my experience only involves about 75-80 birds over the past year, and should be considered anecdotal.

Interestingly, if you look at the feeds available to our friends across the pond, they are consistently lower in protein than their American equivalents, with 13% and 15% protein feeds being prevalent there. I assume their powdered vitamin mixes they use to supplement the ground grains is adjusted accordingly to add back missing amino acids, which are several times less expensive as synthetics than their natural analogues by adjusting grain mixes.

 

[Ridgerunner]

I don't have studies to offer but I do have some opinions. Take them for what you think they are worth.

Who pays for those studies? What chickens are used in those studies? Even if the studies ae performed by university grad students they are typically sponsored by the commercial chicken industry. That's who has the money to pay for them. So for studies on laying chickens they use the commercial egg laying hybrids. They don't typically use Sussex, Wyandottes, Orpington, Rocks, or other dual purpose breeds that make up the bulk of our backyard flocks. Those hybrids are finely bred to lay large eggs with a great feed-to-egg conversion ratio. They are specialists in laying eggs as much as Cornish X are specialists in producing meat. Those studies on the egg laying hybrids apply to our dual purpose chickens as much as studies on the Cornish X apply to our dual purpose used for meat. You can learn a lot from those studies but I personally do not think everything applies directly.

If you look on a typical bag of commercial chicken feed for flocks that will be laying chickens, they often have a feeding chart. These are based on the commercial laying hybrid studies. They typically start of with a high protein content, 18% to 20%, for the first 4 to 6 weeks, depending on the brand. This is to get the chicks off to a good start, probably to a certain extent to get them feathered out fast so they don't have to worry so much about heating them. Instead of brooding them go to raising them. Then they switch to a 16% protein grower to slow down their development some. Some switch to a 15% Developer/Finisher around 11 or 12 weeks, some stay with the 16%. The purpose of cutting back is that they don't need to grow that fast. Give their skeleton and internal organs time to mature before their body growth gets too far ahead. Then around 18 weeks they switch to a 16% Layer to get the ready to start laying.

They control when these pullets will start laying, mostly by controlling the lighting. They keep the days short to keep them from laying until they are ready, then they increase the daylight hours. They do not want those pullets to start laying too soon. Those pullets are so highly tuned to produce eggs they could have most of them laying by 16 to 17 weeks if they wanted to. If the pullets started laying that early they would mostly get those tiny pullet eggs, not that highly valued at the store. A lot would be the weird pullet eggs, soft-shelled or no shells, double yolkers, no yolk eggs, or other weird things. The immature internal egg making factory would be more prone to medical issues such as prolapse or internal laying. By manipulating the lights to delay start of lay a few weeks they improve the health of the flock and the eggs are better quality and more of a commercial size. We do not manage our chickens that way.

The commercial operations know exactly how much each hen should eat to maximize the profitability of egg production and have developed techniques to see that each hen eats exactly that much and no more. You often see that you should have enough feeder space so all chickens can eat at the same time. They release enough feed that the chickens will all be hungry and too busy eating for the bullies to push the weaker hens away from the feed trough. When they all get hungry again they release a little more feed. A few cycles like that and by the end of the day they have all eaten exactly the right amount. Personally I don't do that, I free feed all day and I don't have enough space for all of them at the same time. I'm not nearly as efficient as the commercial operations. And I have a few feeders scattered around so the bullies can't stop any of them from eating.

I think we can learn a lot from those studies but I think we should realize those studies are not performed on our chickens and not in the conditions we raise them. I don't think it matters that much how we feed them as long as we don't get ridiculous. You'll notice toward the end of that Oregon article where they are talking about the commercial operations feeding their breeding chickens a different feed than their laying flock but at our scale that's probably not that important. We are not going to notice a difference, but at a place that may hatch 1,000,000 chicks a week at one hatchery and they have a few of those hatcheries scattered around a very small difference can be significant.

I don't come close to micromanaging my chickens' diet. When the orchard is producing they get fruit. They get kitchen scraps some day. They get excess or waste from the garden, whatever is in production. They forage for a fair amount of their feed. The feed I give them is a significant part of their diet but it's no where near as important as it would be if that were all they are eating.

When I was growing up we did not feed our chickens anything in the good weather months. The foraged for everything they ate and of course free ranged. The quality of forage on that farm was really good. They laid a lot of eggs and hatched a lot of healthy chicks.

I don't know what your goals are for your chickens. Some goals do require special diets. If you are raising them for show they need a special diet. You can increase meat production if that is your goal. You can improve some on your egg laying if you are really careful but I think for the most part that increase will be marginal. To me that difference just isn't worth it. I kind of go by the rule that 10% of the effort will give you 90% of the results.

As I said, this is my opinion. There are a lot of people on this forum that will disagree.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

As much truth as can be found in the studies I linked (and I like the older studies, in the 60s, 70s with Leghorns compared to some of the more modern (and often smaller cohort) studies, there is as much truth to be found in @Ridgerunner's observations.

The studies have limits in their assumptions, their starting points, and their end goals. For example, I was reading (but didn't link), a Brazilian study (I think - could have been another South American country) translated into English, which looked at low protein feeds for layers and found no effect at all - but when you glance at its initial assumptions, its starting with THREE YEAR OLD HENS! Sort of like comparing low viscosity motor oil performance in engines over 500,000 miles...

All you can do - all any of us can do - is peruse the information out there, review the data available, make an educated decision for ourselves, then feed our flock. IT DOESN'T END THERE, HOWEVER. Then we have to watch our flocks, and adjust accordingly based on real world experience.

 

[saysfaa]

I very much appreciate the explanations and links!

My goals don't require special diets. I don't need to maximize production or efficiency or peak for shows. I would like healthy birds and maintaining health and moderate production long term.

 

[GC-Raptor]

Myself I feed 18% Protein minimum, because when I switched to a Layers feed 16% with my first Flock 5 years ago my chickens started to feather pick within a few weeks.
It took me three weeks of Pinless peepers on 3 of 5 culprits and switching back to a Layers feed 18%.

I have been feeding a Non-medicated Starter Grower feed 18% or a All-Flock/Flock Raiser crumble 20% since with Oyster Shells separately.
So I like 2 brands of feed Nutrina Naturewise and Purina.
Both of their Start & Grow feeds are 18%. If they were 20% I would feed that. GC

 

[U_Stormcrow]

I very much appreciate the explanations and links!

My goals don't require special diets. I don't need to maximize production or efficiency or peak for shows. I would like healthy birds and maintaining health and moderate production long term.

For the typical American back yard owner of a small number of birds of various breeds, which may or may not include a rooster, which may or may not have all the hens laying at one time, and which may on occasion see new chicks entering the flock, an "All Flock", "Flock Raiser" or similar multipurpose feed, with free choice oyster shell on the side, provides all the nutritional needs of every member of the flock with a minimum of fuss, no risk of excess calcium toxicity in non layers, roosters, adolescents, and sufficient protein to ensure decent body weights and development of growing chicks, adolescents, etc. without absolutely breaking the bank, while providing support for older hens in molt, etc.

For most typical examples, cost increases over a similar brand and label "layer" feed by $1.50 to $2.00 per 50# bag, and about $8-12 in free choice oyster over the course of a year for the typical flock.

 

[sdm111]

Protein isn't everything

 

[saysfaa]

When they were much smaller I noticed when they pecked at my jeans, they were actually picking up tiny bits of feather shafts. They also took these bits off the tops of each others feathers. That isn't feather picking is it? They don't do it anymore.