International Black Copper Marans Thread - Breeding to the SOP

[BlueTheBrahma]

It would be difficult to know for sure but you seem to have a good idea of who produces what kind of progeny, you know them best so you’re guess is the best. I usually get a gut feeling of who a chicken may be the offspring of, usually something in the type, face or comb gives it away. If the other two are consistently giving a different outcome, then by process of elimination Jett is the likely option (but maybe further hatched will reveal different).

If they have good type, there is no reason not to back cross, even if it turns out they aren’t related, you’re still breeding good type together.

I know this doesn’t add a lot of information, it’s more of a ‘trust your judgement’ message.

Also can I add that I think it’s is very wise of you to focus on back-crossing this season. This will standardise the desired traits into your flock to reduce the variation in quality from the previous hatched.

Even if backcrosses were the only pairings you had this year, it would leave you in a good position for next year.

 

[BlueTheBrahma]

@wrathsfarm , I don’t know if I’ve mentioned it before, but do you think a clan breeding system might be an option for you down the line?

Because you have three F0 hens, you have the ideal start, you’d then split each of them with their offspring to form three pens (the best cockerel from each).

Then, when you breed them, you constantly move the cockerel to the next pen, then replace it with the best cockerel this time around.

This circulates the genes closely but avoids sibling/half-sibling inbreeding.

It’s just something to think about.

 

[wrathsfarm]

@wrathsfarm , I don’t know if I’ve mentioned it before, but do you think a clan breeding system might be an option for you down the line?

Because you have three F0 hens, you have the ideal start, you’d then split each of them with their offspring to form three pens (the best cockerel from each).

Then, when you breed them, you constantly move the cockerel to the next pen, then replace it with the best cockerel this time around.

This circulates the genes closely but avoids sibling/half-sibling inbreeding.

It’s just something to think about.

No I haven't thought about that yet. I've been so concentrated on what Kong has been producing or not producing.

He produces very pretty pullets and their eggs are darkening up gradually. Gorgeous copper and full hackles. But 'type' has been my main focus with consistent failures in cockerels.
Type mainly comes from the hens, correct? I seem to recall Chooks man stating this. Even so it's too easy to point the finger at Kong everyday either way because I see his narrowness.
This brings me to the many questions swirling (my head is spinning) because that was my focus for this year. I need that type in my flock.
Get the BBS Silver flock established/multiplied and breed Solo or Poppy to BCM to get that type in. (like using Solo better for the quicker simplicity of it)
Much beyond that it was just more hatches to sell boys, and darken eggs, but I was starting to realize that backcrossing all my F2 and F3 pullets back to Kong may be troublesome (reinforcing bad genes) if I'm not getting good type, if he's my problem. I'm going in circles producing bad cockerels.
So my thoughts were going to outsourcing better eggs here, also
So now enter yellow/orange and it's a whirlwind of new questions I haven't thought of.
Now that I have it, what do I do with it?
Other than wrap him in bubble wrap and never let him outside....

I still have 4 cockerels to get pics of. These are all from Raven F1 again (King sire x unknown Dam). Maybe we can find another with good type in those. There's 2 big guys in there, but their tails aren't as low. I'm really interested in you looking at white/purple. He's got mass and looks to me like he's wide all the way back. But I'm still struggling with seeing the rectangle compared to v type to put faith in saying how his is.

Sorry I went off the rails there. I need a breeding program set up, that much I know. And I need more coops.

 

[wrathsfarm]

Another question about type.

Joannie, Jett and Betty are F0.
Momma, Rebel and Black are F1 (King sire x unknown Dam) previous willy nilly hatch we think Black may be BCM x BR.

Raven, Copper and Angel are F1 last year hatch (King sire x unknown Dam) but I'm almost positive I only set my darkest eggs from Joannie and Jett. I know for a fact I set no eggs from Betty, Momma or Rebel.
Black would be the only other darker egg wild card here.

Could this v type be caused by King here showing up still in his progeny? Or does Kong have it also?
Or is it just luck finding a hen (Momma so far) that's producing good type in her cockerels?

Kong (is this a good pic? because I think I'm seeing that v shape now)

King

This is Prince...long gone but hatched with Momma, Rebel and Black in 2022. (King sire)

 

[Island Coppers]

Thank you all for the kind remarks. The goal will be to produce the best BCM's I can. Hatching eggs from Phoenix Raising Farm and a local line with Greenfire genetics are what I am working with. Along with reading everything relevant here, I hope to rely on all the great feedback from members here to steer this project toward that goal.

 

[wrathsfarm]

Thank you all for the kind remarks. The goal will be to produce the best BCM's I can. Hatching eggs from Phoenix Raising Farm and a local line with Greenfire genetics are what I am working with. Along with reading everything relevant here, I hope to rely on all the great feedback from members here to steer this project toward that goal.

If I may make a suggestion. Not knowing your level of genetics/breeding. (I'm still learning and there's a lot)

But if you start on page 1 here you'll find it all. We've got some great members here past and present that have contributed their wealth of knowledge. It's all here. I'm following your thread and you've got really nice birds and gorgeous eggs. I wish the best of luck in your journey here.
I mainly post here for my questions related to genetics and breeding but I've also got a thread of my own where I post daily life, pics and random nonsense if you'd like to check it out...


https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/wraths-marans.1625296/page-107#post-28304230

 

[Island Coppers]

wrathsfarm,

You mean like those great posts from Chook's Man? Read them all. Like many of you, I wish he were still posting here.

 

[wrathsfarm]

wrathsfarm,

You mean like those great posts from Chook's Man? Read them all. Like many of you, I wish he were still posting here.

Lol, yep.
I miss him too. I hope he's well on whatever project he's going after.

 

[chickengr]

Another question about type.

Joannie, Jett and Betty are F0.
Momma, Rebel and Black are F1 (King sire x unknown Dam) previous willy nilly hatch we think Black may be BCM x BR.

Raven, Copper and Angel are F1 last year hatch (King sire x unknown Dam) but I'm almost positive I only set my darkest eggs from Joannie and Jett. I know for a fact I set no eggs from Betty, Momma or Rebel.
Black would be the only other darker egg wild card here.

Could this v type be caused by King here showing up still in his progeny? Or does Kong have it also?
Or is it just luck finding a hen (Momma so far) that's producing good type in her cockerels?

Kong (is this a good pic? because I think I'm seeing that v shape now)View attachment 4023770

King
View attachment 4023769

This is Prince...long gone but hatched with Momma, Rebel and Black in 2022. (King sire)View attachment 4023768

can you take better side pics?

 

[BlueTheBrahma]

I wouldn’t call Kong’s type V, some more somewhere between square and rectangular, at least from what I can tell. It’s not perfect but much better than king’s. Notice how from the fluff of his legs to his breast, there is a clear line parallel to his back. A v or triangular bird has a straight or curved line straight up to the breast.

I don’t know much about type coming from the dam mostly. Obviously, with inheritance, some of the type is coming from both parents, since so many genes affect it it isn’t the matter of sex linkage. But I trust Chook man’s experience more than my theory. It’s likely a bit of both: all your stock might carry genes for that type as they are somewhat related to each other, but I’d say King is the main culprit.

The reason I suggested Clan breeding is that you have all the jigsaw puzzles of 100/100 marans, but the correct combinations of alleles needs to present itself. Clan breeding allows gradual improvements as the best genes are cycled through each pen, until you end up with more consistency.