Is this suitable for laying hens?

[ChickenShepherd_6116]

I have 10 hens (6 are pullets) and I am looking for a new feed for them, is this suitable for their needs? They are all young heritage breeds, except for 2 ISA Browns (who are 4yo). They stay in a large run with a compost and lots of grass, they occasionally free range.

 

[BigBlueHen53]

This is a question for @U_Stormcrow!

 

[U_Stormcrow]

I have 10 hens (6 are pullets) and I am looking for a new feed for them, is this suitable for their needs? They are all young heritage breeds, except for 2 ISA Browns (who are 4yo). They stay in a large run with a compost and lots of grass, they occasionally free range.

NOPE.

Too much calcium for pullets. Long term health consequences.

Not nearly enough methionine for growing birds. Its actually significantly below the roughly 40 year old recommendation for adult laying hens (whose nutritional needs are less, and who suffer much less consequence from brief periods of nutritionally inferior feed). Low methionine is a consistent narrative in Organic feeds. One of the reasons synthetic Met inclusions is allowed for feeds carrying the Organic label. Looks like their base grains are so low in both that even adding the maximum amount allowed by law, its still sub-par. Soy Meal is one of the best plant sources for Methionine at reasonable price. Corn Gluten meal, too. So when you see Organic, Soy-Free, Corn-free its a safe bet that the feed will almost certainly be Met deficient. Again, long term health consequences.

Lys is fine. Not spectacular, but fine. Phosphorus is acceptable. I prefer a little higher, but considered acceptable at those levels.

Next, something you will rarely hear me say. Fat levels are low. I've not done the calculations, but mental math suggests that's a low energy feed - its intended for kept (caged or densely packed) birds with limited freedom of movement. It has its purpose. But a chicken will eat anything in its environment to meet its metabolic energy needs first. If they can't get those calories (to use a human nutrition term) elsewhere, they will eat more feed to make up for the lack, increasing your costs.

Finally, that's (should be obvious, its a layer formulation) a feed intended for adult production hens. Not roosters, not "dual purpose" birds you want to get big for the eventual stew pot, certainly not Cx, Rangers, or similar, and probably not optimum for "vanity" birds like frizzles or Yokohama (speculating here - there are no good nutritional studies on these birds, but given the content of feathers, and their unique feathering...)

I wouldn't use that feed for producing eggs for consumption from adult production hens (RSL like your Isa Browns, Leghorns, BSL, RI/NH Reds, etc), and I certainly wouldn't use it to produce eggs for hatching - you can reasonably anticipate that will negatively affect viability.

My opinion. Hope its sufficiently clear?

p.s. as a largely pea and wheat based feed, you can expect relatively pale yolks, as well. (purely cosmetic, but it matters to some)

 

[ChickenShepherd_6116]

NOPE.

Too much calcium for pullets. Long term health consequences.

Not nearly enough methionine for growing birds. Its actually significantly below the roughly 40 year old recommendation for adult laying hens (whose nutritional needs are less, and who suffer much less consequence from brief periods of nutritionally inferior feed). Low methionine is a consistent narrative in Organic feeds. One of the reasons synthetic Met inclusions is allowed for feeds carrying the Organic label. Looks like their base grains are so low in both that even adding the maximum amount allowed by law, its still sub-par. Soy Meal is one of the best plant sources for Methionine at reasonable price. Corn Gluten meal, too. So when you see Organic, Soy-Free, Corn-free its a safe bet that the feed will almost certainly be Met deficient. Again, long term health consequences.

Lys is fine. Not spectacular, but fine. Phosphorus is acceptable. I prefer a little higher, but considered acceptable at those levels.

Next, something you will rarely hear me say. Fat levels are low. I've not done the calculations, but mental math suggests that's a low energy feed - its intended for kept (caged or densely packed) birds with limited freedom of movement. It has its purpose. But a chicken will eat anything in its environment to meet its metabolic energy needs first. If they can't get those calories (to use a human nutrition term) elsewhere, they will eat more feed to make up for the lack, increasing your costs.

Finally, that's (should be obvious, its a layer formulation) a feed intended for adult production hens. Not roosters, not "dual purpose" birds you want to get big for the eventual stew pot, certainly not Cx, Rangers, or similar, and probably not optimum for "vanity" birds like frizzles or Yokohama (speculating here - there are no good nutritional studies on these birds, but given the content of feathers, and their unique feathering...)

I wouldn't use that feed for producing eggs for consumption from adult production hens (RSL like your Isa Browns, Leghorns, BSL, RI/NH Reds, etc), and I certainly wouldn't use it to produce eggs for hatching - you can reasonably anticipate that will negatively affect viability.

My opinion. Hope its sufficiently clear?

p.s. as a largely pea and wheat based feed, you can expect relatively pale yolks, as well. (purely cosmetic, but it matters to some)

That was very clear, thank you! My search goes on!

 

[BigBlueHen53]

Thanks, @U_Stormcrow! U da best!

 

[ChickenShepherd_6116]

NOPE.

Too much calcium for pullets. Long term health consequences.

Not nearly enough methionine for growing birds. Its actually significantly below the roughly 40 year old recommendation for adult laying hens (whose nutritional needs are less, and who suffer much less consequence from brief periods of nutritionally inferior feed). Low methionine is a consistent narrative in Organic feeds. One of the reasons synthetic Met inclusions is allowed for feeds carrying the Organic label. Looks like their base grains are so low in both that even adding the maximum amount allowed by law, its still sub-par. Soy Meal is one of the best plant sources for Methionine at reasonable price. Corn Gluten meal, too. So when you see Organic, Soy-Free, Corn-free its a safe bet that the feed will almost certainly be Met deficient. Again, long term health consequences.

Lys is fine. Not spectacular, but fine. Phosphorus is acceptable. I prefer a little higher, but considered acceptable at those levels.

Next, something you will rarely hear me say. Fat levels are low. I've not done the calculations, but mental math suggests that's a low energy feed - its intended for kept (caged or densely packed) birds with limited freedom of movement. It has its purpose. But a chicken will eat anything in its environment to meet its metabolic energy needs first. If they can't get those calories (to use a human nutrition term) elsewhere, they will eat more feed to make up for the lack, increasing your costs.

Finally, that's (should be obvious, its a layer formulation) a feed intended for adult production hens. Not roosters, not "dual purpose" birds you want to get big for the eventual stew pot, certainly not Cx, Rangers, or similar, and probably not optimum for "vanity" birds like frizzles or Yokohama (speculating here - there are no good nutritional studies on these birds, but given the content of feathers, and their unique feathering...)

I wouldn't use that feed for producing eggs for consumption from adult production hens (RSL like your Isa Browns, Leghorns, BSL, RI/NH Reds, etc), and I certainly wouldn't use it to produce eggs for hatching - you can reasonably anticipate that will negatively affect viability.

My opinion. Hope its sufficiently clear?

p.s. as a largely pea and wheat based feed, you can expect relatively pale yolks, as well. (purely cosmetic, but it matters to some)

Is there anything I could add to the feed to improve it? It's local and for a super good price, so it would be nice to get. But if its not good, its not good. I want the best for my girls. Also, to be clear, my pullets wouldn't eat it until they start laying.

 

[BigBlueHen53]

Is there anything I could add to the feed to improve it? It's local and for a super good price, so it would be nice to get. But if its not good, its not good. I want the best for my girls. Also, to be clear, my pullets wouldn't eat it until they start laying.

Sorry, I can't resist: add commercial all-flock to it and it will be fine. Also grit and oyster shell in separate vessels.

 

[ChickenShepherd_6116]

Sorry, I can't resist: add commercial all-flock to it and it will be fine. Also grit and oyster shell in separate vessels.

I'm trying to keep prices down, what commercial feed would you suggest? It doesn't have to be dirt cheap, I want good feed. (I'm willing to pay what is necessary for my flocks health ofc) Would it be a 50/50 ratio? Also, regarding the yolk color, could I add marigold to help with that?

 

[U_Stormcrow]

Is there anything I could add to the feed to improve it? It's local and for a super good price, so it would be nice to get. But if its not good, its not good. I want the best for my girls. Also, to be clear, my pullets wouldn't eat it until they start laying.

As a rule, I don't like to try and "fix" feeds - its generally cheaper to simply buy a superior feed in the first place.

If I had to fix that feed, and organic mattered to me? I'd try to source (you are in Idaho?) organic bovine blood meal, or organic fish meal. Both are animal proteins which will have good Met levels, further boost your Lys levels, and help w/ non phytate Phos as well. Inclusion rates would be relatively low, likely 5-10%. I'd have to do the math.

Is that a cheap solution for you??? Don't know.

and yes, there are lots of ways to color the yolks. Certain marigold flowers, dried red pepper among the most common.

 

[ChickenShepherd_6116]

As a rule, I don't like to try and "fix" feeds - its generally cheaper to simply buy a superior feed in the first place.

If I had to fix that feed, and organic mattered to me? I'd try to source (you are in Idaho?) organic bovine blood meal, or organic fish meal. Both are animal proteins which will have good Met levels, further boost your Lys levels, and help w/ non phytate Phos as well. Inclusion rates would be relatively low, likely 5-10%. I'd have to do the math.

Is that a cheap solution for you??? Don't know.

and yes, there are lots of ways to color the yolks. Certain marigold flowers, dried red pepper among the most common.

Yes, I'm in ID. So, would I still have to mix commercial feed with it if I did add organic bovine blood meal/organic fish meal? (would I add both? Is that all I would have to add to "fix" it?) Thanks you for your replies, it's been super helpful.
Also, if I decided to go with this feed + fish meal, would this do the job?