Is too much protein bad for adult Chickens ?

[digitS']

You are giving advice on human nutrition and disease based on a "pilot study" (as its authors have identified it) of 13 men in South Africa. Your source for information on this 2000 article is Health and Age, "sponsored by Boomerang Pharmaceutical Communications."

The information suggested by the South African researchers must still not have gotten to the Mayo Clinic where the advice on gout is: ". . . limit animal protein in your diet to no more than 5 to 6 ounces of lean meat, poultry or fish a day."
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/gout-diet/HQ00765

To return one last time to chickens and a high-protein diet: "High levels of protein in the feed can cause or contribute to the seriousness of gout. Under practical conditions this is unlikely to be a problem with healthy poultry because protein is expensive and therefore, protein levels are formulated very close to the estimated flock requirement. There is a large margin of safety between the protein requirement and the levels (approximately 35-40%) which will induce gout in healthy birds." Ralph A. Ernst, Ph.D. & Duncan McMartin, DVM
86 page pdf: http://animalscience.ucdavis.edu/Avian/cpl1995.pdf

Steve

 

[missnu01]

Quote:
Nope. Sorry. This hasn't happened with my animals or the animals of others that have switched their pets to a low carbohydrate food. I am sure there is some poor dog out there with something wrong with it besides low quality food (thyroid disorder, metabolic disorder, mental issues, etc...) but in most cases, the animal will not feed itself until it blows up. I also know a lot of raw feeders and have yet to run in to one with a fat pet.

I will bet my wisdom teeth that those owners who complain their pets get fat on high quality food are also still feeding them junk ...or their kids are.

There is no possible way to know exactly how much food a dog or cat needs from day to day. Some days they play more, some days they sleep more. There is no way the needs of a 19 year old female cat is going to be the same as a 3 year old male cat of the same weight and size.

As for running down food....look at a lion pride. They run around for one day and spend the next 4 sleeping. Wolves also eat a lot when they get a kill and then end up fasting for up to 2 weeks. If you want to really stick with evolutionary feeding, you should let your pet gorge one day, then don't feed it for a couple of days, etc..


Most of the dogs I have had will eat a whole lot and then not really touch their food for the next couple of days. I just put it out and if they eat it good...if they don't whatever, they'll eat when they are hungry. They always have food, but they don't eat very much of it at a time. I did have one French bulldog that if he maybe was left in the basement and found the dog food stash he would eat himself into a coma...but none of my other animals have ever needed to be limited. They eat a little and then carry on...but some dogs will indeed gorge themselves anytime food is there. I notice in my experience it seems to be the flatter faced breeds that have no full button...they will eat and eat and eat until they can't move and you are sure they are going to die, so you rush them to the vet, only to find out that he isn't dying...he has just eaten way too much and not to feed him for a few days...Lol. Our cat food is in a tote type stacking container that we just leave open. The cats go over and eat a bit, and then go chase toilet paper, or lay on top of things for a few hours, and then come back and eat a little more. I have seen a lot of fat cats, but so far have just had to wonder how that happens. I think a lot of people see that their pet hasn't eaten that day and coax them into eating all the food with a lot of praise and what not...but then your pet gets in this terrible habit of always trying to finish all their food.
I would love to have a dog that gets all excited waiting by the food bowl...but minus the one frenchie they have all been pretty dog food aloof...they will pay attention for treats, but they don't really care about the dog food. Perhaps I should give them a couple days without putting any down, and then maybe they will be happier to see it when it is there...Then again they are both healthy now and of a good weight...I think my yorkie poo could stand to gain a little...his legs are like twigs...Then again he is a little guy, but still he seems to skinny, but he won't eat more than he already does, and that's gotten him through 3 years so far, so I guess he's alright. The vet never says anything about his weight...

 

[missnu01]

I'm glad this came up. Our feed store was out of grower crumbles and only had layer crumbles. I bought a few bags cause I needed feed for my chickens. 12 of them (white leghorns and some leghorn mutts) hatched around Thanksgiving, the other 8 BA's hatched January 1. I just fed them the layer ration and didn't think anything of it. Then within in a 2 week period one of the rooster's feet crippled up, turned in and he couldn't stand up or walk properly. We disptched him after about 4 weeks - he was not straightening out. I wondered if he grew too fast like the meat birds can do if you keep feed in front of them all the time. Is this because the protein level was too high for a growing chicken?

Chick food has more protein than layer pellets...so it is possible that the foot thing was not connected. So grower crumbles have 18-20% while layer feeds usually have right at 16%...

I was feeding layer pellets, but then I had some chicks so they had chick starter, and of course all my hens were eating the chick starter, and their eggs got bigger and their feathers looked better...so when I ran out of laying pellets this time I got some 20% flock raiser to see if I can still get the larger eggs and great looking feathers. Either way I won't get Dumor laying pellets again..they smell weird and the chickens didn't like it..and it got moldy within a few weeks of me keeping it dry inside...so, no more Dumor for me.
I might go back to the laying pellets depending on how this trial of flock raiser goes, but I figured the ducks and turkeys will be getting the flock raiser anyway, so wouldn't it be easier to feed them all the same thing...I hope it won't cause any issue, but it claims it is safe for all poultry above 3 weeks of age.

 

[Mac in Wisco]

This thread is four years old...

 

[Beekissed]

And still very applicable...I think it needs a revival! I see a lot of people out there increasing proteins in the feed with some disastrous results, both short term and long term. Particularly if this is done with grains, which are not a protein that is best utilized by a chicken unless transformed in some manner.

 

[LeslieDJoyce]

I was just adding to another old thread on this topic ... here is what I posted:

Quote:

 

[Beekissed]

It sure would be interesting to put those findings to a simple test in one's own flocks. Anyone prepared to feed chicks 70% protein out there or even feed adult chickens 40% proteins for a prescribed time to see how they fare on such levels?

When I find studies that seem to make sense and can benefit my flock, I put it to the test and see if it pans out...and it usually does, so I'm curious if anyone has fed 70% protein to chicks and found no ill effects? And the 40% for turkeys and chickens? How long did you feed it and what results did you have, good or bad, when feeding those levels of protein?

 

[LeslieDJoyce]

It sure would be interesting to put those findings to a simple test in one's own flocks.  Anyone prepared to feed chicks 70% protein out there or even feed adult chickens 40% proteins for a prescribed time to see how they fare on such levels? 

When I find studies that seem to make sense and can benefit my flock, I put it to the test and see if it pans out...and it usually does, so I'm curious if anyone has fed 70% protein to chicks and found no ill effects?  And the 40% for turkeys and chickens?  How long did you feed it and what results did you have, good or bad, when feeding those levels of protein? 

Yeah. I've got lots of questions. Turkeys start at 28%, OD at 40%. A much smaller gap there than for the chickens.

I absolutely would not want to feed the hens 70% protein on purpose. Just looking for the upper limit in how much is "safe." The link suggests someone has done that research. But who?

The Feeding Poultry book suggests there is an upper limit above which poultry health suffers, and though it quantifies very specifically the lower limits of protein for survival and various kinds of growth and productivity, it never quantifies the healthy upper limit.

I'd like to know, just for giggles.

Heritage breeds conservancy group suggests feeding heritage chickens 28% protein. That's right up there.

Protein is expensive ...

 

[Beekissed]

It sure is. I'm always curious as to why folks feel the protein percentages in layer rations is too low when it will fuel commercial layers to lay eggs for 2 yrs straight...believe me, if the commercial growers could get more eggs by adding more protein, they most certainly would. My grandmother always just fed field corn to her chickens and corn meal to the chicks and she was always in eggs, so there really is a wide range of nutrition that can keep a bird healthy and producing, but I think the formulated feeds kind of keep it in the middle with the average needs of a laying hen.

Funny how that article says they can just excrete excess proteins but cannot just excrete excess calcium without renal damage. One is a mineral and one is a lipid, so I can see the difference but excess lipids can cause increased urea crystals in the blood stream that have a hard time being excreted, so they settle in distal joints of the animal..or human.

Excess protein seems to affect the cardiovascular or hepatic function more than the kidneys, so I think they didn't really address that aspect.

 

[LeslieDJoyce]

Protein is an expensive ingredient so they formulate the rations to use as little of it as is cost effective. Then they cull young ...

I, personally, can't help but believe we can do better than commercial efficiency ration formulas for our keeper/breeder flocks if we're feeding for maximum health.

The Feeding Poultry book states birds can perform better if fed more of "available" versions of various nutrients than the standard rations. Animal proteins have a lot of those nutrients ... but the info in the book fizzles out at the upper performance levels ... diminishing returns. Like protein between 19% and 22% after the initial growth phase.

I'm looking for justification for that 28% recommended by the heritage breeds conservancy group. So far I'm not finding it.

The many benefits of good forage? ... I'm setting that aside for the purposes of this exercise.