Isa Brown cross Isa Brown - Dud egg layers?

[Cerci]

Hi Chicken Lovers! Is there anyone out there who has ever owned Isa Brown X Isa Brown Hens? What I am interested in finding out the following:
Do your Isa cross Isa hens lay well? - what egg rate do you get?, are the hens healthy? Did you lose any very early?

The reason I am asking for information is because this weeks hatch only produced one live chick, so I purchased 5 - 3 day old chicks to keep baby company (and make it economically viable for heat lamp costs) these chicks are Isa Browns crossed with Isa Browns and were the ONLY chicks of suitable age available in my area. I live in Australia and we do not have the live chick trade like US citizens enjoy.
So now I have five 'mutt' chicks and one very tiny Lavender Rumped Araucana. I have since found out, much to my dismay, that I may have purchased dud egg layers, birds that may not make it to egg laying age even... given that I get some pullets in the bunch and haven't chose ALL Roos!
I would greatly appreciate anyone who has or has had this cross or first hand knows someone else who did or does and pass on your experiences to me. Thanking you in advance.

 

[Lady of McCamley]

While I don't have specifically an Isa Brown v Isa Brown, I know enough of genetic breeding "mutts" (for long-term sustainability) with several lines started with Red Sex Links (a variation of Isa Brown).

There is NO reason to believe you have dud layers. None whatsoever. The only idea that Isa x Isa would be "dud" is that the sex linking is lost. The sex linking only happens the first generation with the pure red based dad and pure silver based female. Then you get red fawn female chicks and yellow male chicks at hatch.

The egg laying capacity should be little impacted as the genetics are there. If anything, you'd have a bit more enhancement.

So no need to panic other than there is now no guarantee you bought female chicks who are red down. (If my memory serves in the Isa v Isa cross 50% male/female red down, 50% male/female yellow down).

LofMc

 

[Allsfairinloveandbugs]

I have had many ISA Brown pullets and hens since 2014. In recent years I have also purchased ISA brown cockerels to intentionally make the cross you are asking about.

First of all, when some people say the crosses are "duds", I think maybe they refer to the fact the resulting chicks are not sex-linked, the eggs are not uniformly that rich golden brown color (varying shades of brown), the eggs are not quite as huge, and the lay rate is not quite as high as with the original ISA Browns. But by No means is the cross a dud.

My f2, f3 and f4 generation ISA's have laid well and lived longer than the original ISA's. I sadly usually lose ISA Brown hens to various reproductive issues around age three. But most of their offspring are still healthy and laying at age 4-5.

Seeing your question caused me to remember an old thread I read on BYC years ago. That thread was the reason I decided to make my own crosses. Here it is.

https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/breeding-sex-links-third-generation.660815/

The info about crossing ISA Browns starts with post 7. I think after you read the thread, you will rest easier knowing your new chicks will work out just fine.

 

[Cerci]

While I don't have specifically an Isa Brown v Isa Brown, I know enough of genetic breeding "mutts" (for long-term sustainability) with several lines started with Red Sex Links (a variation of Isa Brown).

There is NO reason to believe you have dud layers. None whatsoever. The only idea that Isa x Isa would be "dud" is that the sex linking is lost. The sex linking only happens the first generation with the pure red based dad and pure silver based female. Then you get red fawn female chicks and yellow male chicks at hatch.

The egg laying capacity should be little impacted as the genetics are there. If anything, you'd have a bit more enhancement.

So no need to panic other than there is now no guarantee you bought female chicks who are red down. (If my memory serves in the Isa v Isa cross 50% male/female red down, 50% male/female yellow down).

LofMc

While I don't have specifically an Isa Brown v Isa Brown, I know enough of genetic breeding "mutts" (for long-term sustainability) with several lines started with Red Sex Links (a variation of Isa Brown).

There is NO reason to believe you have dud layers. None whatsoever. The only idea that Isa x Isa would be "dud" is that the sex linking is lost. The sex linking only happens the first generation with the pure red based dad and pure silver based female. Then you get red fawn female chicks and yellow male chicks at hatch.

The egg laying capacity should be little impacted as the genetics are there. If anything, you'd have a bit more enhancement.

So no need to panic other than there is now no guarantee you bought female chicks who are red down. (If my memory serves in the Isa v Isa cross 50% male/female red down, 50% male/female yellow down).

LofMcyes,

While I don't have specifically an Isa Brown v Isa Brown, I know enough of genetic breeding "mutts" (for long-term sustainability) with several lines started with Red Sex Links (a variation of Isa Brown).

There is NO reason to believe you have dud layers. None whatsoever. The only idea that Isa x Isa would be "dud" is that the sex linking is lost. The sex linking only happens the first generation with the pure red based dad and pure silver based female. Then you get red fawn female chicks and yellow male chicks at hatch.

The egg laying capacity should be little impacted as the genetics are there. If anything, you'd have a bit more enhancement.

So no need to panic other than there is now no guarantee you bought female chicks who are red down. (If my memory serves in the Isa v Isa cross 50% male/female red down, 50% male/female yellow down).

LofMc

Very little information to be found on this cross - part of my guess being there's more money in breeding heritage breeds - so was relying on a particular genetic company's information that I found online. The information was clear on the sex link factor - all bets are off with the 'mutt' bred chicks. But they had also stated the egg laying ability would be reduced, my wording of 'dud' was probably a little too graphic - was meaning the egg laying capability would not be the super egg laying capability of the Isa Brown (trademark) itself. But far more concerning was the information that some may die before reaching point of lay. Horrors!

 

[Cerci]

I have had many ISA Brown pullets and hens since 2014. In recent years I have also purchased ISA brown cockerels to intentionally make the cross you are asking about.

First of all, when some people say the crosses are "duds", I think maybe they refer to the fact the resulting chicks are not sex-linked, the eggs are not uniformly that rich golden brown color (varying shades of brown), the eggs are not quite as huge, and the lay rate is not quite as high as with the original ISA Browns. But by No means is the cross a dud.

My f2, f3 and f4 generation ISA's have laid well and lived longer than the original ISA's. I sadly usually lose ISA Brown hens to various reproductive issues around age three. But most of their offspring are still healthy and laying at age 4-5.

Seeing your question caused me to remember an old thread I read on BYC years ago. That thread was the reason I decided to make my own crosses. Here it is.

https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/breeding-sex-links-third-generation.660815/

The info about crossing ISA Browns starts with post 7. I think after you read the thread, you will rest easier knowing your new chicks will work out just fine.

Thank you so much for your consideration and passing on first hand experience! I feel very much better about selling on the pullets at point of lay (if I do get some instead of all roos!) I think reproductive issues come with the Isa territory?. "Dud" was my poor choice of wording for egg layers maybe not quite up to parr. Having read a genetic company's information online that this cross would be inferior layers, non sex link AND (worst of all) may die before reaching maturity. Thanks again for sharing.

 

[Allsfairinloveandbugs]

Thank you so much for your consideration and passing on first hand experience! I feel very much better about selling on the pullets at point of lay (if I do get some instead of all roos!) I think reproductive issues come with the Isa territory?. "Dud" was my poor choice of wording for egg layers maybe not quite up to parr. Having read a genetic company's information online that this cross would be inferior layers, non sex link AND (worst of all) may die before reaching maturity. Thanks again for sharing.

I suspect the genetic company's info you read may have dissed the F2 & later crosses because they want people to keep buying the original ISAs. I've never lost Any ISA Browns or their progeny before reaching point of lay. I agree with you there isn't much info about making the crosses. Seeing that 2012 thread i sent you is exactly what gave me the confidence to purchase ISA Brown cockerels direct from the hatchery same time as I ordered pullets. I would love it if you report Your future experiences with your F2's. Good luck!

 

[Cerci]

I certainly will give updates - to fill the void of future quests for knowledge . The link you gave was also much appreciated, thanks. Gives me confidence these chicks will thrive, as they are currently doing - growing rapidly, boisterous and ravenous.. with not one showing a hint it might suddenly drop off the perch in the near future...

 

[Cerci]

Hi Chicken Lovers! Is there anyone out there who has ever owned Isa Brown X Isa Brown Hens? What I am interested in finding out the following:
Do your Isa cross Isa hens lay well? - what egg rate do you get?, are the hens healthy? Did you lose any very early?

The reason I am asking for information is because this weeks hatch only produced one live chick, so I purchased 5 - 3 day old chicks to keep baby company (and make it economically viable for heat lamp costs) these chicks are Isa Browns crossed with Isa Browns and were the ONLY chicks of suitable age available in my area. I live in Australia and we do not have the live chick trade like US citizens enjoy.
So now I have five 'mutt' chicks and one very tiny Lavender Rumped Araucana. I have since found out, much to my dismay, that I may have purchased dud egg layers, birds that may not make it to egg laying age even... given that I get some pullets in the bunch and haven't chose ALL Roos!
I would greatly appreciate anyone who has or has had this cross or first hand knows someone else who did or does and pass on your experiences to me. Thanking you in advance.

I suspect the genetic company's info you read may have dissed the F2 & later crosses because they want people to keep buying the original ISAs. I've never lost Any ISA Browns or their progeny before reaching point of lay. I agree with you there isn't much info about making the crosses. Seeing that 2012 thread i sent you is exactly what gave me the confidence to purchase ISA Brown cockerels direct from the hatchery same time as I ordered pullets. I would love it if you report Your future experiences with your F2's. Good luck!

Just an update on how my Isa cross Isa chicks went. I can report the Roos were actually not too bad as meat birds. Not as fully fleshed as an Orpington or australorp but not as bad as I have heard reported. The Isa cross pullets started laying at around 20 weeks so they weren't early but neither were they tardy. The one pullet I still have is happy, healthy, and full of herself. She's not as large as the regular Isa bred chicken but she lays an egg a day of dark brown color and regular size which I expect will get larger and lighter the longer she lays. i will update on her progress if I keep her on which I might just do as she's a friendly girl, much bolder than my Australorps, my Araucana and my Orpington.

 

[User635240]

I have had many ISA Brown pullets and hens since 2014. In recent years I have also purchased ISA brown cockerels to intentionally make the cross you are asking about.

First of all, when some people say the crosses are "duds", I think maybe they refer to the fact the resulting chicks are not sex-linked, the eggs are not uniformly that rich golden brown color (varying shades of brown), the eggs are not quite as huge, and the lay rate is not quite as high as with the original ISA Browns. But by No means is the cross a dud.

My f2, f3 and f4 generation ISA's have laid well and lived longer than the original ISA's. I sadly usually lose ISA Brown hens to various reproductive issues around age three. But most of their offspring are still healthy and laying at age 4-5.

Seeing your question caused me to remember an old thread I read on BYC years ago. That thread was the reason I decided to make my own crosses. Here it is.

https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/breeding-sex-links-third-generation.660815/

The info about crossing ISA Browns starts with post 7. I think after you read the thread, you will rest easier knowing your new chicks will work out just fine.

Hi, where do you recommend purchasing Isa Browns?

 

[Allsfairinloveandbugs]

Hi, where do you recommend purchasing Isa Browns?

I've purchased mine several times direct from Hoover hatchery, and have also purchased at Tractor Supply. (Those also came from Hoover.) My first ISA Browns came from Townline Hatchery, but I switched to Hoover because they are cheaper. True ISA Browns are a proprietary "copyrighted breed". They cannot be created and bred by individual hatcheries; instead the hatcheries that sell ISA Browns purchase hatching eggs. This means that no matter which hatchery you purchase true ISA Browns from, they will generally all be similiar to each other in appearance, lay rate, egg size and color, etc.