Landrace/adaptive breeding discussion

[LaurenRitz]

Look how much he looks like my Thai x aseel x Liege cross:


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The more I see, the more convinced I am of the theory that as you cross orientals, you get them returned to a proto-breed form that orientals descended from. The Malay being the center of that original form.

I've noticed something similar with "standard" breeds. When I first crossed JG and RIR I got chick colors ranging from solid black to chipmunk to yellow/white. The breeds used to create those standard breeds were represented in the chick colors. As I continue to mix I can see that the chipmunk is there even in the black--it's just obscured by the color. Sometimes it manifests itself as a reverse chipmunk stripe, white streaks in the black instead of dark on light.

The wild type patterns remain, even after so many years of inbreeding, and I think that given time and a return to natural behavior they would revert to what their ancestors were.

 

[MysteryChicken]

Look how much he looks like my Thai x aseel x Liege cross:


View attachment 3954570

The more I see, the more convinced I am of the theory that as you cross orientals, you get them returned to a proto-breed form that orientals descended from. The Malay being the center of that original form.

He looks interesting. Somewhat similar.

This is Malay X Easter Egger. He was an oopsie, but is beautiful.

 

[MysteryChicken]

I've noticed something similar with "standard" breeds. When I first crossed JG and RIR I got chick colors ranging from solid black to chipmunk to yellow/white. The breeds used to create those standard breeds were represented in the chick colors. As I continue to mix I can see that the chipmunk is there even in the black--it's just obscured by the color. Sometimes it manifests itself as a reverse chipmunk stripe, white streaks in the black instead of dark on light.

The wild type patterns remain, even after so many years of inbreeding, and I think that given time and a return to natural behavior they would revert to what their ancestors were.

RIRs have Malay in their ancestry. Not entirely sure about the Jersey Giant though.

 

[LaurenRitz]

RIRs have Malay in their ancestry. Not entirely sure about the Jersey Giant though.

Black Java, Black Langshan and dark Brahma made up the Jersey Giant.

 

[MysteryChicken]

Black Java, Black Langshan and dark Brahma made up the Jersey Giant.

Okay, with that mixture, Brahma also has Malay in it's ancestry.

 

[No Coop No Problem]

My first flock was half American Game, half RIR. All of the games naturally began tree roosting and around half of the reds copied them. The other half slept on the ground. Foxes got all of the ground sleepers over the next 6 months

In the years since, with my entire flock tree roosting, all newcomer chickens I've brought here have learned to tree roost swiftly. Even this fat, stumpy winged Brahma I had years ago that spend his entire life confined to a coop learned to tree roost within mere days by watching my flock

I believe roosting is genetic in origin but socially learned behavior can override the genetic impulses

 

[LaurenRitz]

My first flock was half American Game, half RIR. All of the games naturally began tree roosting and around half of the reds copied them. The other half slept on the ground. Foxes got all of the ground sleepers over the next 6 months

In the years since, with my entire flock tree roosting, all newcomer chickens I've brought here have learned to tree roost swiftly. Even this fat, stumpy winged Brahma I had years ago that spend his entire life confined to a coop learned to tree roost within mere days by watching my flock
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I believe roosting is genetic in origin but socially learned behavior can override the genetic impulses

Wild flocks do not have "roosting bars" so they quickly learn to tree roost or nothing.

 

[LaurenRitz]

I've been trying to get good pictures of this guy, and he's not cooperating. He has that very tall, upright stance, the line being interrupted by a fuller chest and larger thighs.

He's (Biel x JG) x BA. Through an accidental mother-son mating I learned that his father carried a fatal dwarfism gene, so unfortunately he can't stay.

 

[tinychicky]

Do you ever sell chicks or eggs? Thanks.

I do at times. Feel free to PM me with your interest and location.

 

[SourRoses]

How much of a chicken's flight ability is based on wing length/mass/muscle, and how much on experience? My birds fly at most two feet off the ground, regardless of breed, and seldom try to get up into trees. Not even as chicks. Their "flight" down is more of a controlled plummet.

After keeping a bunch of different breeds, I've seen noticeably improved flight ability in a few individuals.
So I vote for nature rather than nurture.

One black Ameraucana roo shocked me with his ability for vertical takeoffs. He was always a little gymnast as soon as his wings started catching air as a chick, and he never lost it.
One day when he was a year old, I was being lazy (tired) about collecting eggs and their breeder pen just had a plastic crate for eggs on the ground. So when I opened the door I just kinda bent in and dragged the crate to me at the door.
I hear what almost seems to be the absence of noise, but in hindsight must have been a light whooshing. I look up, and there's a big black shape hovering above my head. In one spot, about 6ft high. I jumped back a bit in surprise, and after a few stunning seconds of staring at this hovercraft... he gently beats back down to earth, still in the same spot.
I realized from his demeanor that I scared him to flight with my abrupt redecorating, rather than him being aggressive.
It actually makes sense because some breeders of black Ameraucanas used Sumatra far back in their lineage to improve some traits.
And Sumatra are known to be the best fliers in the chicken world, even crossing ocean to reach a different island.

I've also seen good flying ability from Mosaics, just the hens who are pretty light. I crossed one of those with the Am roo mentioned above and got Licorice.
Everyday Licorice lets herself out of our chicken yard more than a dozen times. She hops right back over in a few minutes after finding herself some goodies. We've let her keep her wandering ways because she doesn't get stranded on the wrong side of the fence like all the others. Unlike other chickens who try to escape, she doesn't need much launching room but will just go up an over effortlessly.

On the flip side, I've had English Orpingtons who couldn't get 4 ft off the ground to roost. That's with them really wanting and trying to get up there to be with the others. I had to make sure they had lower roosting locations before they would stop plunking themselves down on the ground to sleep.

Out of a lot of other breeds, including:
Genetic Hackles, other colors of Ameraucana, Speckled Sussex, Faverolles, Silkies, Polish, Wyandottes, none of them could fly very well. Leghorns, of course, flew very high when they wanted but they did seem to need some takeoff room to get started.

In conclusion, I think the ability to fly well is just rare. As humans for hundreds of years have not preferred their poultry to escape.
"Flightiness" is still very much listed in the Cons list of some breeds. At first, I thought it must refer to the personality, aka skittishness. But I've heard serious breeders firmly say it's the birds propensity to get out of an enclosure. So... either they are mistaken or I am.