Light in coop, dark outside

[Sherrirod]

We have had chickens 11 years. They free-range during the day.

Good to know! Thanks

 

[Sherrirod]

We purchased pullets from a farmer who breeds, but does not vaccinate. I knew it was a 50/50 chance they could have issues but decided to try it. Nothing but regrets. I've since heard other customers whose pullets / chicks died that bought them from this farm. I will not mention the name as vaccinations are a personal decision when one purchases chicks/started pullets.
Even if vaccinated, it is no guarantee that the chicken may not encounter issues later on.
I have never purchased chicks as we are not set up with a brooder (yet). When purchasing chicks from Tractor Supply or Rural King, it's my understanding they are already vaccinated for Marek's and most national hatcheries will vaccinate, if requested.
We now purchase our starteds from a different farmer who only acquires chicks from a reputable national hatchery who vaccinates.

There is extensive information on this site about Marek's disease - go to the search feature or search the articles here.

On the hen we took to the vet, it was verified she acquired neurological problems that she was never going to recover from, which would only get worse with time so we were not going to allow her to suffer. She was in a very bad way. There are no avian vets anywhere near us, we found a dog / cat vet who graciously took us as an emergency. ($$$ kick 'em when they're down). He was actually very good about it and I'm grateful we did it. Being our first time at this chicken gig we needed to better understand what was happening and why and there is no one around in our circle of life to ask so we had to seek professional help.
I've since learned much from not only this site, where there are wonderful people willing to help, but also from reading chicken health books

I figured there must be a thread on it. I plan to research it just as soon as I can get caught up.

 

[Ridgerunner]

When I first came on this forum I kept seeing posts about chickens hurting themselves by jumping down from too high roosts. It wasn't bumblefoot so much as dislocating a joint. Growing up on the farm and with mine I never saw that. It took a while to understand that. It can be a real thing.

Bumblefoot is essentially an infection caused by a cut on the foot. That's most likely caused by them cutting themselves by stepping on something sharp like broken glass or maybe nail or screw points sticking out from something you put together. Maybe in a nest, brooder, or something else. Splinters can be a problem. When I use a 2x4 as a roost I sand the sharp corners. That's not to make it easier for the chickens to grip with their feet, that's to remove potential splinters. If they land on something that can cut or injure their feet when they jump/fly down that can lead to bumble foot but so can just walking around or especially when they scratch.

CX or Rangers can grow so big that they can hurt their joints when they hop down from very high. They are so big their bodies can't take the impact. Chickens raised for show are fed a special diet so thy grow large. Many judges reward them for large chickens. Many people on this forum feed their chickens a high protein diet. Those chickens tend to grow big. I'm not talking about them being fat, just heavy enough that their joints might be injured if they jump down. I don't feed my chickens like that. Mine get a 16% protein feed after the chicks are 4 to 5 weeks old and have feathered out. I start them on an 18% protein feed to help them feather put faster and get a decent start in life. Mine also forage for a lot of their food, get kitchen wastes, and get garden and orchard wastes. I don't know how much protein they get in a day. I'm sure it doesn't average close to 20%. I will not enter any of mine in a show as they are too small. But mine have a good life chasing bugs, lay a lot of eggs, hatch and raise a lot of chicks, provide meat, and have no problems flying up to or down from my 5' high roosts. I have no doubt they could use higher roosts but I like my roosts at a good height that I can remove them at night to check on them or treat them.

I do not see any issues with your roost placement, other than it may be hard to reach all of them comfortably if you want to grab then at night because of all the stuff in your way. Unless you are feeding them in a way that they will become huge. Then an 18" roost may be high.

Chickens get diseases and parasites the same way every other living animal or plant does. Contact with infected individuals, sometimes it is in the environment. There are a lot more than just Marek's that can possibly infect them. Some are easily treatable and may be more of an inconvenience than a disaster. Some cause death or crippling to at least part of your flock. Marek's is one of the really nasty ones but it is not the only nasty one.

Not every chicken on the planet is exposed to Marek's or any of the others. Dad had a flock for most of his adult life and never had Marek's in them. He only had to treat for mites twice that I'm aware of. I butcher chickens at several intervals between June and November. When I butcher, I cut the intestines open to look for roundworms or tapeworms. I've never seen any. Some people do have a lot of trouble with diseases or parasites. I'm not trying to downplay how awful some of that can be. But not all of us have to deal with things like that.

To try to avoid bringing in diseases or parasites limit your chickens' exposure to other chickens. Don't bring home chickens from chicken swaps or auctions. Don't show your chickens. If you bring home any chickens other than baby chickens from a major hatchery (those should be safe) consider using quarantine. If you visit other people that have chickens don't wear the same shoes as when you deal with your own chickens, you can track diseases or parasites home.

Observe your chickens and be on the lookout for signs they might be sick or suffering. It can happen to any of us at any time. But don't live your life in fear that it might happen. It can but if anything does happen it can usually be treated.

Good luck!

 

[Mrs. K]

If your chickens prefer 2 in side of a 2x4, no need to change it. People sometimes get a bit decided as to what is right. If my birds are roosting there, I assume it is working for them.

My own roosts are mostly old wooden posts in different sizes, some like some size other like others, I let them work that out. The roosts are off the ground about 4 feet, and I too have never had bumble foot.

Mrs k

 

[Sherrirod]

When I first came on this forum I kept seeing posts about chickens hurting themselves by jumping down from too high roosts. It wasn't bumblefoot so much as dislocating a joint. Growing up on the farm and with mine I never saw that. It took a while to understand that. It can be a real thing.

Bumblefoot is essentially an infection caused by a cut on the foot. That's most likely caused by them cutting themselves by stepping on something sharp like broken glass or maybe nail or screw points sticking out from something you put together. Maybe in a nest, brooder, or something else. Splinters can be a problem. When I use a 2x4 as a roost I sand the sharp corners. That's not to make it easier for the chickens to grip with their feet, that's to remove potential splinters. If they land on something that can cut or injure their feet when they jump/fly down that can lead to bumble foot but so can just walking around or especially when they scratch.

CX or Rangers can grow so big that they can hurt their joints when they hop down from very high. They are so big their bodies can't take the impact. Chickens raised for show are fed a special diet so thy grow large. Many judges reward them for large chickens. Many people on this forum feed their chickens a high protein diet. Those chickens tend to grow big. I'm not talking about them being fat, just heavy enough that their joints might be injured if they jump down. I don't feed my chickens like that. Mine get a 16% protein feed after the chicks are 4 to 5 weeks old and have feathered out. I start them on an 18% protein feed to help them feather put faster and get a decent start in life. Mine also forage for a lot of their food, get kitchen wastes, and get garden and orchard wastes. I don't know how much protein they get in a day. I'm sure it doesn't average close to 20%. I will not enter any of mine in a show as they are too small. But mine have a good life chasing bugs, lay a lot of eggs, hatch and raise a lot of chicks, provide meat, and have no problems flying up to or down from my 5' high roosts. I have no doubt they could use higher roosts but I like my roosts at a good height that I can remove them at night to check on them or treat them.

I do not see any issues with your roost placement, other than it may be hard to reach all of them comfortably if you want to grab then at night because of all the stuff in your way. Unless you are feeding them in a way that they will become huge. Then an 18" roost may be high.

Chickens get diseases and parasites the same way every other living animal or plant does. Contact with infected individuals, sometimes it is in the environment. There are a lot more than just Marek's that can possibly infect them. Some are easily treatable and may be more of an inconvenience than a disaster. Some cause death or crippling to at least part of your flock. Marek's is one of the really nasty ones but it is not the only nasty one.

Not every chicken on the planet is exposed to Marek's or any of the others. Dad had a flock for most of his adult life and never had Marek's in them. He only had to treat for mites twice that I'm aware of. I butcher chickens at several intervals between June and November. When I butcher, I cut the intestines open to look for roundworms or tapeworms. I've never seen any. Some people do have a lot of trouble with diseases or parasites. I'm not trying to downplay how awful some of that can be. But not all of us have to deal with things like that.

To try to avoid bringing in diseases or parasites limit your chickens' exposure to other chickens. Don't bring home chickens from chicken swaps or auctions. Don't show your chickens. If you bring home any chickens other than baby chickens from a major hatchery (those should be safe) consider using quarantine. If you visit other people that have chickens don't wear the same shoes as when you deal with your own chickens, you can track diseases or parasites home.

Observe your chickens and be on the lookout for signs they might be sick or suffering. It can happen to any of us at any time. But don't live your life in fear that it might happen. It can but if anything does happen it can usually be treated.

Good luck!

You are awesome!! Thank you so much for all of the detail! I have been reading and reading and reading, but the information is so conflicting!

You are absolutely right about them being too close to handle on the roosts. I knew it would be a problem when I added the roosts over the bunk, but I really didn't have a choice. The available space just is what it is. With an enclosed run, I can catch them if I need to during the day...eventually.

You straightening out big chickens verses too big for body structure chickens helps. I'm not worried about them jumping down now. What you didn't say was if they will be smart enough to use one of their alternatives (straw step, table, lower perches) when they get older/heavier. They are still pretty young. The oldest won't be a year old until the end of February.

On protein, just ugh. I have run the gambit. I started with 20% chick crumbles like TSC told me to when they sold me the first chicks. Then came the reading. I switched to 16%-layer food when they turned 16 weeks. More reading. I can't do that because I had roosters and some of the chicks weren't supposed to lay until much later. I set that bag aside and went to 17%-flock pellets with a side of oyster shells. More reading. I was diluting their protein with all of the garden greens I was giving them, so I set that aside and switched to 19% pellets with 20% crumbles for the new chicks. Then I moved little chicks into protected see but don't tough area in big chick run and it was so sad to see the little chick's disappointment over not getting the treats the big chicks got so they too got treats. More reading. To compensate for giving treats to little chicks, I got 24% crumbles for little chicks. (Also, all along every other article says that these numbers are the bare minimum designed for factory chicks and lowest cost...more is better.) Next, we combine chicks and go figure, the big chicks want to eat the 24% crumble and the little really want the pellets, so I buy 19 and 20% pellets and crumbles and mix them, providing the little chicks 24% in a starter tray in a hard-to-reach area to keep the big chicks away. More reading. Turns out the little chicks aged out of needing additional protein and the 19-20% is now good for everyone except of course for determining a magical number of treats (squash, tomatoes and assorted fruits and greens from the yard/garden).

I just decided to quit reading. In the precious little space I have left in the shed/coop for storage, I have like 6 giant bags of food. I figure chickens that free range don't control the percentage of greens they eat...they do however get protein from bugs which mine can't. Sooo, here's my plan:

I am giving the 19-20% mix in the feeders. I do 3-4 treats a day (I know, I know...but it's so fun!) One treat is tomatoes, one is squash, one is greens and for the last I have something like 20 perches (ranging from 20" to 6' high) with treat cups attached to or stationed near each. I fill with about 1/2 cup 24% and top with a handful of cheap scratch, supplemented with wheat berries, some cheap birdseed and dried meal worms. (The big chicks race ahead of me to the perches to pick out the best bits as soon as I fill it and to sneak a bite out of the treat bowl if they can manage it.) While I do throw down a handful or two for them to get from the ground, by and large they get lots of exercise going from cup to cup, perch to perch to see if there is any scratch left before they settle on nibbling some of the crumbles.

It sounds neurotic, but it really isn't. I'm outside working anyway and the little beggars race back and forth along the fence line trying to get my attention so I'll bring treats. I can only resist for so long. Neurotic is the disturbing amount of canning I'm doing to provide fruit/vegies for them in the winter now that my giant freezer is full of bags of diced up garden greens. My point is that their treats are primarily stuff they would be eating if they were free range, and the scratch/extra protein is designed to force exercise that again, they would be getting if they free ranged. I do plan to set up bins for growing meal worms, but I haven't had time with all of the freezing and canning lol.

Oh, I also plan to mix some of the 24% in their feed next year when they start molting. So, kind of a long story, but I thought it would amuse you. In the end, is my plan right for confined chickens -- 19-20% plus treats, 16-17% when I have actual meal worms to boost protein?? Also, I'm thinking that maybe I can use up the bags of 16 and 17% by mixing them with the scratch?

I now my numbers are higher than yours but mine can't go get their own protein and I want them to have a varied diet, not just commercial feed. Do you think it is too much protein? Is the difference between an enclosed run and free range something I need to worry so much about compensating for?

 

[Mrs. K]

Deep breath. Quit worrying, I have eaten potato chips and lived to tell the tale. Some people think the diet is a science that has to be followed exactly. I am a bit more laid back.

Do start feeding that feed up. If I have chicks - I feed everyone chick feed, oyster shell on the side. Once I get through two bags - I feed layer feed. Yes, I have a rooster, no he has not died. And frankly I think his days are limited anyway.

They know more about being a chicken than I ever will. Feed enough, good clean water, and adequate shelter... and the rest is just fancy.

Mrs K

 

[Sherrirod]

If your chickens prefer 2 in side of a 2x4, no need to change it. People sometimes get a bit decided as to what is right. If my birds are roosting there, I assume it is working for them.

My own roosts are mostly old wooden posts in different sizes, some like some size other like others, I let them work that out. The roosts are off the ground about 4 feet, and I too have never had bumble foot.

Mrs k

Oh wow, great! We thought we had to make that front edge wider, and didn't really want to. Saves me a trip to the lumber yard. Thanks! I also appreciate the 4 feet confirmation. I was so afraid I was really going to get scolded and have to completely redo everything. What a relief this has been.

 

[Sherrirod]

Deep breath. Quit worrying, I have eaten potato chips and lived to tell the tale. Some people think the diet is a science that has to be followed exactly. I am a bit more laid back.

Do start feeding that feed up. If I have chicks - I feed everyone chick feed, oyster shell on the side. Once I get through two bags - I feed layer feed. Yes, I have a rooster, no he has not died. And frankly I think his days are limited anyway.

They know more about being a chicken than I ever will. Feed enough, good clean water, and adequate shelter... and the rest is just fancy.

Mrs K

Really?! It won't hurt the rooster? Huh! Good to know! I will mix it in once the chicks get a little closer to laying age. Anything that helps get rid of the bags of feed is good for me

 

[FunnyBunny89]

You are awesome!! Thank you so much for all of the detail! I have been reading and reading and reading, but the information is so conflicting!

You are absolutely right about them being too close to handle on the roosts. I knew it would be a problem when I added the roosts over the bunk, but I really didn't have a choice. The available space just is what it is. With an enclosed run, I can catch them if I need to during the day...eventually.

You straightening out big chickens verses too big for body structure chickens helps. I'm not worried about them jumping down now. What you didn't say was if they will be smart enough to use one of their alternatives (straw step, table, lower perches) when they get older/heavier. They are still pretty young. The oldest won't be a year old until the end of February.

On protein, just ugh. I have run the gambit. I started with 20% chick crumbles like TSC told me to when they sold me the first chicks. Then came the reading. I switched to 16%-layer food when they turned 16 weeks. More reading. I can't do that because I had roosters and some of the chicks weren't supposed to lay until much later. I set that bag aside and went to 17%-flock pellets with a side of oyster shells. More reading. I was diluting their protein with all of the garden greens I was giving them, so I set that aside and switched to 19% pellets with 20% crumbles for the new chicks. Then I moved little chicks into protected see but don't tough area in big chick run and it was so sad to see the little chick's disappointment over not getting the treats the big chicks got so they too got treats. More reading. To compensate for giving treats to little chicks, I got 24% crumbles for little chicks. (Also, all along every other article says that these numbers are the bare minimum designed for factory chicks and lowest cost...more is better.) Next, we combine chicks and go figure, the big chicks want to eat the 24% crumble and the little really want the pellets, so I buy 19 and 20% pellets and crumbles and mix them, providing the little chicks 24% in a starter tray in a hard-to-reach area to keep the big chicks away. More reading. Turns out the little chicks aged out of needing additional protein and the 19-20% is now good for everyone except of course for determining a magical number of treats (squash, tomatoes and assorted fruits and greens from the yard/garden).

I just decided to quit reading. In the precious little space I have left in the shed/coop for storage, I have like 6 giant bags of food. I figure chickens that free range don't control the percentage of greens they eat...they do however get protein from bugs which mine can't. Sooo, here's my plan:

I am giving the 19-20% mix in the feeders. I do 3-4 treats a day (I know, I know...but it's so fun!) One treat is tomatoes, one is squash, one is greens and for the last I have something like 20 perches (ranging from 20" to 6' high) with treat cups attached to or stationed near each. I fill with about 1/2 cup 24% and top with a handful of cheap scratch, supplemented with wheat berries, some cheap birdseed and dried meal worms. (The big chicks race ahead of me to the perches to pick out the best bits as soon as I fill it and to sneak a bite out of the treat bowl if they can manage it.) While I do throw down a handful or two for them to get from the ground, by and large they get lots of exercise going from cup to cup, perch to perch to see if there is any scratch left before they settle on nibbling some of the crumbles.

It sounds neurotic, but it really isn't. I'm outside working anyway and the little beggars race back and forth along the fence line trying to get my attention so I'll bring treats. I can only resist for so long. Neurotic is the disturbing amount of canning I'm doing to provide fruit/vegies for them in the winter now that my giant freezer is full of bags of diced up garden greens. My point is that their treats are primarily stuff they would be eating if they were free range, and the scratch/extra protein is designed to force exercise that again, they would be getting if they free ranged. I do plan to set up bins for growing meal worms, but I haven't had time with all of the freezing and canning lol.

Oh, I also plan to mix some of the 24% in their feed next year when they start molting. So, kind of a long story, but I thought it would amuse you. In the end, is my plan right for confined chickens -- 19-20% plus treats, 16-17% when I have actual meal worms to boost protein?? Also, I'm thinking that maybe I can use up the bags of 16 and 17% by mixing them with the scratch?

I now my numbers are higher than yours but mine can't go get their own protein and I want them to have a varied diet, not just commercial feed. Do you think it is too much protein? Is the difference between an enclosed run and free range something I need to worry so much about compensating for?

Hello fellow over thinker! I think your worries are sweet but I have learned (much like the others here) that too much intervention makes things worse, not better. My highest roosting bar is 5 feet, the lowest one is 1.5 feet. I have 5 bars in total spanning from 3 feet wide to 10 feet wide. I changed my setup probably 6 times before settling where I am now and I accept that it's as good as it's gonna get. Is it perfect? No. But it works, and the chickens like it. Sometimes they jump off the top bar and land funny and I worry, but nobody has been hurt. I have a sand floor so they land softly on that, but they will also fly out the door and hit the fence because they just want to fly. I've had them for 7 months now and no injuries. I think people like us strive for perfection and it just leads to stress which leads to overthinking. I think you're doing great! You got some good tips here and it's probably all you need. Let some of your pullets mature more and get closer to their final size before making anymore adjustments.

 

[FunnyBunny89]

My coop is dark due to few windows and the roof over the enclosed run. Because of this I like to have a light on in the coop. Come winter, I'm not sure I want to give them 14 hours of light but I do think I'd like to give them more than what they'll get naturally. They have free access to go in or out of the run at will.

My question is...if I have the light come on in the coop at 6 am for example, and the sun doesn't rise until 7:30 will they go out into the run or stay in the coop where there is light? (There is some ambient light in the yard/run from a streetlight, but not much.)

I ask because while I have plenty of roosting space and an abundance of nest boxes, until the meat chickens are taken out, there isn't enough space for everyone to "hang out" for an hour or two in the coop. I am afraid the younger chickens will be terrorized by the bigger ones if they are afraid to escape into the run.

Btw I wanted to ask you (I'm sick and having trouble reading all comments, please forgive me if it's already answered); can you add a window to the coop? I just recently did that by removing a siding board and then screwing up wire mesh aka hardware cloth. It helped a lot! If you can't simply remove a side board, can you cut a hole?
Also, my chickens hang out for an hour or two in their coop in the mornings (I have 15, 14 hens and a roo) and they have never been agitated enough to pick on each other. I always find them huddled against the door, waiting for me. I see signs of them having drank water and eaten some food, but no signs of fights or anything. Right now, I have 3 new pullets in the coop and they just stay on the bars until I open the door. They seem perfectly fine.