Looking for penedesencas and empordanesas

[QuijoteK]

It seems to be extremely difficult to find any breeders or any information at all about breeders of Penes or Emordanesas. There is very old information here and there but each trail I follow dead ends with nothing! If there are breeders out there how can I find them? So far you are the only person to respond (thank you!) and your flock is limited to black, so not exactly what I am looking for. Seriously, I DO know that Privett Hatchery in NM has 4 colors (wheaten, black, partridge and crele) and they have very good birds. But I just don't want to order the minimum 25 Chix and get 18 cockerels for a pretty high price tag! I just wonder the source of the Penes that people do have and what happened to breeders like Jason (I know, dogs) and Luann? What were their sources? Thanks for letting me bend your ear!

 

[ChickenCanoe]

I was on Privett's website today. All I could find was Crele Penedesencas, no other varieties.
Sandhill Preservation in Iowa has blacks but I didn't order from them due to some flaws in their birds.
The original birds of both breeds were brought from Catalonia as eggs in two importations less than 20 years ago. 3 people were involved in those importations and I think Luann was involved fairly early in the process. I was told that those birds were distributed far and wide. But supposedly fell out of favor due to their wild nature. The very trait that makes them so predator savvy and endears them to me.
Jason got some birds over the last 6 years from 3 different sources but just a handful at a time.

 

[QuijoteK]

I guess those sources are what I am searching for. But so far no clues...? I never heard any more from Jason after his dogs killed his breeders. Even now he doesn't answer. It is a traumatic experience. Very hard to process. I cannot find a way to contact LuAnn. As for Privett, they do also list Penedesenca SR, which must be the Partridge. It is where I got mine, but very expensive for min 25 and so many roos. I know they have other colors because I have spoken with them, but they don't seem to know much about them. Perhaps what's listed is what they are hatching just now. I don't understand selling Creles or Cream Leg Bars (I raised them for a while. Nice birds but boring compared to Penes or Rumpless/tufted Araucanas) as SR as they are both sex-links. I do have my original PP hen as she was in another pen raising araucana Chix when the bobcat got the others. I also have an odd colored pair. I will try to get pics of them to send to you for help identifying them. If you do have any suggestions of contacts even remote possibilities I would so appreciate your sharing them with me. Thx

 

[QuijoteK]

I took a couple of pictures of my odd colored Pene rooster. Rumpless araucana hens around him. He is very pretty, large and healthy and full of him self. Note the pink legs and feet. His hen, not shown, looks like any other pene/BBR hen but also has the pink legs and feet. They are all that is left from the massacre, besides the partridge hen with Chix as they were in different pens. If you have any idea of what color or cross they might be I would appreciate the help.

 

[ChickenCanoe]

What is BBR?

He looks like a Partridge to me. Pink legs is more common on Crele Penedesencas, which have white legs.
I wouldn't read a lot into the leg color in regards to crosses. I have only raised blacks which are supposed to have dark slate legs but I still get fairly light and pinkish legs on a lot of birds. They've never been crossed with any other variety in all the years they've been here.
Keep in mind that while the breed is quite old, it was a landrace fowl that came in all sorts of colors. They weren't standardized into the 4 varieties till the mid 1980s. Many other breeds have been standardized into varieties for a hundred years or even much longer. IMO, that's why you don't see nearly as many aberrations in most other breeds. That means we'll likely see sports and other color variations for a long time. What we can do is select only the birds for breeding that conform to the standards and never to allow out crossing.
To do that, one needs to hatch hundreds of birds, cull hard and only keep the best.
That's the reason I only raise one breed and one variety. I don't have the time or space for more breeds/varieties.
Other than feather and skin/leg color, which varied greatly in the 1800s and 1900s (Penedesencas in those days were mostly black with lots of brown, red and white feathering), the dominant characteristics were dark eggs, white earlobes and carnation combs. IMHO, selecting first for egg color, earlobe color and proper combs as well as proper shape is the way to go. Once those are consistently attained, we can continue to work on proper feather, leg and beak colors.
The reason I say this, is that the egg color and comb color are easily lost and those are two of the characteristics that make them so unique.
There's an old adage in breeding chickens - first build the house, then paint it.

I translated the standards for the black variety from Catalan, Spanish and Irish.
I'll try to do the same for the other varieties some day.

Here is the standard for blacks.

Black Penedesenca Standards

The following is the best and most complete information I've gleaned from the Catalonian and Irish standards. Standards in Argentina are the same as in Spain(Catalonia)
Where the standards are different, I’ve noted that.

COLOR:

COMB, FACE and WATTLES: Red.

EAR LOBES: White enclosed by red.

EYES: Black, with dark honey iris color

BEAK: Black horn of ox.

SHANKS and TOES: Black slate.

EGGS:
Very dark reddish brown (Ireland)
Intense reddish maroon (Spain)
140-160 eggs per year
over 65g (Ireland)
60g (Spain)

CHICK DOWN: Black with white under the neck, beside the eyes, in the abdominal zone and at the tip of the wings.

ROOSTER PLUMAGE: Tight to the body, lustrous metallic black in all sections with dark gray down.

HEN PLUMAGE: Like the rooster in all sections.

WEIGHT: Rooster: 2.5 to 3kg, (5.5 to 6.6 lbs.) Hen: 2 to 2.4kg, (4.4 to 5.3 lbs.)

Rooster Morphology

HEAD: Moderately elongated and wide.

FACE: Flat.

BEAK: Elongated, moderately curved and strong.

EYES: Medium size and oval.

COMB: Simple, mildly large, upright, well sitting on the head, flat, with five or six plain short peaks, with the last and the first smaller than the central ones. The rear spur, with an arched base has a tendency to go toward the back of the neck without touching it and with appendixes to each side of the posterior. The comb, viewed from behind, must resemble a flower.

WATTLES:
Medium sized and hanging.(Ireland)
Fairly large, pendulous and red (Spain)

EAR LOBES:
Mildly lengthened, lightly lined, very united to the head on the upper part, and suspended on the lower part. (Ireland)
Moderately elongated, oblong, slightly wrinkled close to the head at the top and hanging on the lower part. White surrounded with red. (Spain)

NECK: Regularly arched, proportionally long with respect to the body, with abundant hackle resting on the shoulders and back.

WINGS:
Big, well pleated and belted to the body. They mustn't surpass the body. (Ireland)
Large and carried inclined so the imaginary line running from tip to the ground form an angle approximately 45º to the ground, tight to the body without exceeding it.(Spain)

BACK: Wide, inclined from front to back and with abundant hackles, rounded and rather short.

BREAST: Wide, deep, elongated and prominent; with well arched ribs.

TAIL:
Developed, well populated with feathers and open with two longer feathers quite curved in the shape of a sickle, inserted in angle of 45º through the horizontal. (Ireland)
Sickle feathers inserted at an angle between 45º and 90º above the horizontal (Spain).

TORSO: Rather short, wide and tilted toward the back.

ABDOMEN: Not well developed

THIGHS: Half longitude (meaning in the center of the side of the body) and vigorous with tight plumage.

LEGS: Moderately lengthened, flat, very separate and free of feathers.

TOES: Four, strong, open and straight.

APPEARANCE: In harmony and vigorous

Hen Morphology

HEAD, FACE and BEAK: Like the rooster.

COMB: Simple, mildly big, with five or six teeth very definite and jagged, fall toward a side of the face and with appendixes like in the rooster.

WATTLES, EAR LOBES, WING, BACK and BREAST: Like in the rooster.

TAIL: Abundant, long and in angle between 40º and 45º through the horizontal.

THIGHS, SHANKS and TOES: Like those of the rooster.

APPEARANCE: Like that of the rooster.


Undesirable traits –

Discard criteria in Ireland:
a) Red at the ear lobes on more than one third of their surface.
b) Absence of reddish-brown coloration on the egg shell.
c) Absence of the appendixes at the comb.

Serious Defects in Spain:
a) any golden feathers
b) red or silver in the neck;

 

[QuijoteK]

Hi Kathie and welcome.
Yes, I only raise black Penedesencas.
https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/black-penedesenca-hatching-eggs.1235753/

Hi ChickenCanoe! Are you stil raising the black Penes! Do you sell hatching eggs? Would the black color be a problem in Tucson's heat or are the blacks as heat tolerant as the other colors? Thanks for your help!

 

[QuijoteK]

What is BBR?

He looks like a Partridge to me. Pink legs is more common on Crele Penedesencas, which have white legs.
I wouldn't read a lot into the leg color in regards to crosses. I have only raised blacks which are supposed to have dark slate legs but I still get fairly light and pinkish legs on a lot of birds. They've never been crossed with any other variety in all the years they've been here.
Keep in mind that while the breed is quite old, it was a landrace fowl that came in all sorts of colors. They weren't standardized into the 4 varieties till the mid 1980s. Many other breeds have been standardized into varieties for a hundred years or even much longer. IMO, that's why you don't see nearly as many aberrations in most other breeds. That means we'll likely see sports and other color variations for a long time. What we can do is select only the birds for breeding that conform to the standards and never to allow out crossing.
To do that, one needs to hatch hundreds of birds, cull hard and only keep the best.
That's the reason I only raise one breed and one variety. I don't have the time or space for more breeds/varieties.
Other than feather and skin/leg color, which varied greatly in the 1800s and 1900s (Penedesencas in those days were mostly black with lots of brown, red and white feathering), the dominant characteristics were dark eggs, white earlobes and carnation combs. IMHO, selecting first for egg color, earlobe color and proper combs as well as proper shape is the way to go. Once those are consistently attained, we can continue to work on proper feather, leg and beak colors.
The reason I say this, is that the egg color and comb color are easily lost and those are two of the characteristics that make them so unique.
There's an old adage in breeding chickens - first build the house, then paint it.

I translated the standards for the black variety from Catalan, Spanish and Irish.
I'll try to do the same for the other varieties some day.

Here is the standard for blacks.

Black Penedesenca Standards

The following is the best and most complete information I've gleaned from the Catalonian and Irish standards. Standards in Argentina are the same as in Spain(Catalonia)
Where the standards are different, I’ve noted that.

COLOR:

COMB, FACE and WATTLES: Red.

EAR LOBES: White enclosed by red.

EYES: Black, with dark honey iris color

BEAK: Black horn of ox.

SHANKS and TOES: Black slate.

EGGS:
Very dark reddish brown (Ireland)
Intense reddish maroon (Spain)
140-160 eggs per year
over 65g (Ireland)
60g (Spain)

CHICK DOWN: Black with white under the neck, beside the eyes, in the abdominal zone and at the tip of the wings.

ROOSTER PLUMAGE: Tight to the body, lustrous metallic black in all sections with dark gray down.

HEN PLUMAGE: Like the rooster in all sections.

WEIGHT: Rooster: 2.5 to 3kg, (5.5 to 6.6 lbs.) Hen: 2 to 2.4kg, (4.4 to 5.3 lbs.)

Rooster Morphology

HEAD: Moderately elongated and wide.

FACE: Flat.

BEAK: Elongated, moderately curved and strong.

EYES: Medium size and oval.

COMB: Simple, mildly large, upright, well sitting on the head, flat, with five or six plain short peaks, with the last and the first smaller than the central ones. The rear spur, with an arched base has a tendency to go toward the back of the neck without touching it and with appendixes to each side of the posterior. The comb, viewed from behind, must resemble a flower.

WATTLES:
Medium sized and hanging.(Ireland)
Fairly large, pendulous and red (Spain)

EAR LOBES:
Mildly lengthened, lightly lined, very united to the head on the upper part, and suspended on the lower part. (Ireland)
Moderately elongated, oblong, slightly wrinkled close to the head at the top and hanging on the lower part. White surrounded with red. (Spain)

NECK: Regularly arched, proportionally long with respect to the body, with abundant hackle resting on the shoulders and back.

WINGS:
Big, well pleated and belted to the body. They mustn't surpass the body. (Ireland)
Large and carried inclined so the imaginary line running from tip to the ground form an angle approximately 45º to the ground, tight to the body without exceeding it.(Spain)

BACK: Wide, inclined from front to back and with abundant hackles, rounded and rather short.

BREAST: Wide, deep, elongated and prominent; with well arched ribs.

TAIL:
Developed, well populated with feathers and open with two longer feathers quite curved in the shape of a sickle, inserted in angle of 45º through the horizontal. (Ireland)
Sickle feathers inserted at an angle between 45º and 90º above the horizontal (Spain).

TORSO: Rather short, wide and tilted toward the back.

ABDOMEN: Not well developed

THIGHS: Half longitude (meaning in the center of the side of the body) and vigorous with tight plumage.

LEGS: Moderately lengthened, flat, very separate and free of feathers.

TOES: Four, strong, open and straight.

APPEARANCE: In harmony and vigorous

Hen Morphology

HEAD, FACE and BEAK: Like the rooster.

COMB: Simple, mildly big, with five or six teeth very definite and jagged, fall toward a side of the face and with appendixes like in the rooster.

WATTLES, EAR LOBES, WING, BACK and BREAST: Like in the rooster.

TAIL: Abundant, long and in angle between 40º and 45º through the horizontal.

THIGHS, SHANKS and TOES: Like those of the rooster.

APPEARANCE: Like that of the rooster.


Undesirable traits –

Discard criteria in Ireland:
a) Red at the ear lobes on more than one third of their surface.
b) Absence of reddish-brown coloration on the egg shell.
c) Absence of the appendixes at the comb.

Serious Defects in Spain:
a) any golden feathers
b) red or silver in the neck;

The hen of this pair is now laying and lays a very pink, almost lavendar egg, not brown. The lovely roo on the pictures has become very aggressive and kicked the you-know-what out of my legs. I am trying to find a way to get rid of him, but not having luck. He's still barely a year old so probably good to eat, I just don't eat my poultry. Looking for more Penes of almost every or any color.

 

[QuijoteK]

BBR is what we used to call partridge...Black Breasted Red.

 

[ChickenCanoe]

Hi ChickenCanoe! Are you stil raising the black Penes! Do you sell hatching eggs? Would the black color be a problem in Tucson's heat or are the blacks as heat tolerant as the other colors? Thanks for your help!

Yes. That's all I raise now. I sell eggs and chicks. They are very heat hardy. I don't think the fact that they are black affects that. Of course they will still need lots of high shade.

 

[QuijoteK]

I am interested in switching from partridge to black. Can you tell me about costs and shipping of eggs and also of chicks?
Again, i am in Tucson. I am rebuilding my coops after the bobcat break in. I have an outbuilding where i brood although I sometimes manage to have a broody hen adopt them.. I am eager to hear from you. Thanks K