Meat Bird Comparison: Freedom Ranger Hatchery White Ranger, FR New Hampshire, Cornish Rock Cross, and Ginger Broilers

[FunClucks]

Processed 4 White Rangers (3 cockerels and 1 pullet), 2 New Hampshire cockerels, and one ginger broiler over the holiday. Skinned them all - they were older and the strength of the connective tissue on most of their legs suggest I better think about pressure cooking them. It was a lot of work. I'll try and weigh them after I have them bagged up, hopefully this evening.

2 of the WR were limping, looks like due to the varus vulgus deformity, as I couldn't find anything else wrong, and the hock joint/leg seemed slightly deformed. The one healthy NH cockerel I processed was still not terribly large (maybe 5-7 lbs) although he was the largest NH still extant, and had the angel wing issue. His connective tissue was easy to separate, so I expect he'll be tender and I'll roast him in the oven slathered in BBQ sauce.

One of the New Hampshires had their legs go out when I was out of town the week before last, so it was really me putting that one out of its misery rather than processing that one. Gave it a few days in isolation with food and water to see if it would perk up, and it didn't. Its legs were still moving, the toes could grab and move, and extend, no curled up toes, but the hock joints just didn't work any more, and the bird couldn't stand up at all. It was alert, but laid on its side. I've had a couple CX and a ginger broiler that had their hocks go out in the past, and it's usually a process where it becomes harder for them to stand up but they can if they really try, but this bird couldn't even try anymore. I wonder if that progression happened when I was out of town.

This NH cockerel whose legs went out was the one raised on 20% protein chick starter / all flock from the beginning - he was getting plenty of exercise, was at a healthy weight (lighter than the birds raised with 23-24% meat bird crumble), and had a flock of 5 juvenile hens he was shepherding about in the enclosure with my oldest flock. I saw no sign of injury or bruising that could have caused the leg issue, and I'm pretty upset I lost him because he was one of the ones I'd planned to keep. Just bad genetics I guess.
I'll probably also roast the WR hen - I plucked her, and expect she'll be quite tender.

Not sure what week we're on (I'll have to look it up), but the maturing WR cockerels and some of the hens are now having feathers with rust red tips show up. Like in a splash pattern across their backs mainly. My guess is the WR are CX mixed with something red at some point to increase livability. They've been all white up to this point. The WR hens started laying last week. Got some pretty cute pullet eggs that are a dingy white (not blinding white like if they had the zinc white gene). No idea if they're fertile. The roos are starting to scratch up the WR hens, so I'm going to get saddles on them soon. The WR hens are pretty docile. I kept the largest 2 of 3 hens and one WR cockerel. WR male specific saddle feathers are now evident.

The one ginger broiler I processed was maybe 5 lbs. I kept her so long because she was injured from the roosters, and I wanted to give her a chance to heal. She healed up very well, and I cut out some scabs, but all her skin looked healthy, and she was laying when I processed her. She had two egg yolks in her ovaries that looked like walnuts in shape not color, about the size of a regular marble, which is not normal - they're supposed to be round. Her other internal organs looked normal. I've found anomalously shaped crops in the past for the GBs, and have seen hock issues/weakness/failure so thought I'd record that I've now seen anomalous developing yolks.

Weight update:

White Ranger cockerels, processed +/- 1 day from July 4, 2023: 9.4 lbs, 10.2 lbs, 10.2 lbs.

White Ranger hen same age as cockerels: 7.8 lbs

3rd generation Ginger Broiler hen, been laying for 3-4 months (small, not a runt, I'd consider it part of the variation inherent in breeding these): 3.8 lbs processed weight. She has 2 flockmates that are currently about 9 lbs live weight. 7-9 lbs was pretty typical for hens/roos around 3 months for the GBs, and they didn't get much larger after 3 months.

 

[paintedChix]

I want to thank you for your information & updates. This is helpful as my husband wants dual purpose New Hampshire birds - he figures that we'd get eggs & be able to breed for continuing sustainability.

I remembered the NH offered by FR Hatchery & was checking the info/availability. I just went back & noticed they had no weight information & no real info about the birds.

So I went back to Livestock Conservancy site to get info. For some reason, I was thinking that they were larger than TLC lists them at. I will be contacting some of the breeders listed & want to ask questions...

Also, I'm worried as I've seen several references regarding aggression in the NH roos. I don't do well w/ that & while he may want them, I'd be primary (likely only) bird caretaker. People aggressive roos would quickly be dispatched as myself & one of our granddaughters have been injured. Right now, I couldn't easily get away from, or deal w/an aggressive roo. Though the heavy walking boot I'm still wearing outside would protect the leg w/ broken ankle (healing)...

 

[FunClucks]

I want to thank you for your information & updates. This is helpful as my husband wants dual purpose New Hampshire birds - he figures that we'd get eggs & be able to breed for continuing sustainability.

I remembered the NH offered by FR Hatchery & was checking the info/availability. I just went back & noticed they had no weight information & no real info about the birds.

So I went back to Livestock Conservancy site to get info. For some reason, I was thinking that they were larger than TLC lists them at. I will be contacting some of the breeders listed & want to ask questions...

Also, I'm worried as I've seen several references regarding aggression in the NH roos. I don't do well w/ that & while he may want them, I'd be primary (likely only) bird caretaker. People aggressive roos would quickly be dispatched as myself & one of our granddaughters have been injured. Right now, I couldn't easily get away from, or deal w/an aggressive roo. Though the heavy walking boot I'm still wearing outside would protect the leg w/ broken ankle (healing)...

I initially identified NH by FR as a good dual purpose meat bird candidate from reviews here on this site. They are a decent size at 5 months. We've kept 2-3 roos till maturity (past 5 m), and every one of them has been mean. That being said, I keep my birds confined with ~15 sq ft per bird due to predators in my area, so they don't get much if any free ranging time. They have a decently cluttered run. The roos have never given me trouble, as the main caretaker, but my young children and husband have had trouble with them. I'd suggest that if you want to have a sustainable flock, and are concerned with injury, especially around young children, that you set up your coops so that you can have a separate area or separate coop for your roo where you feed him and water him by filling containers from outside the area/coop. So no one has to go inside the area with the roo. You can let him in with the hens when you're looking for fertile eggs, and just highly manage flock/human interactions with adults only then. A catch pole could also be helpful with getting the roo where you want him to go.

There are ways to manage a mean roo if you must keep him and can't have children injured, but it takes good coop setup/preparation and an easily enacted safety plan that you adhere to strictly. If I were you, I'd prepare to handle a mean roo regardless of what type/breed rooster you get. Each roo is an individual and it really depends on the bird, as well as the breed, as to whether he ends up being human aggressive or not. Good luck!

If you want to be sure you can raise lots of chicken and not have to deal with mean roos, you may want to seriously consider just doing batches of CX instead of a sustainable flock. Those CX roos don't get mean until long after they are supposed to be processed, so it's not an issue with them. CX are quite docile and biddable to people even several months past optimal processing day/size.

The white rangers gave me less trouble than the NH, but I think a lot of it was because they were so big they had trouble getting around and harassing the hens.

 

[SE_Gardener]

Processed 4 White Rangers (3 cockerels and 1 pullet), 2 New Hampshire cockerels, and one ginger broiler over the holiday. Skinned them all - they were older and the strength of the connective tissue on most of their legs suggest I better think about pressure cooking them. It was a lot of work. I'll try and weigh them after I have them bagged up, hopefully this evening.

2 of the WR were limping, looks like due to the varus vulgus deformity, as I couldn't find anything else wrong, and the hock joint/leg seemed slightly deformed. The one healthy NH cockerel I processed was still not terribly large (maybe 5-7 lbs) although he was the largest NH still extant, and had the angel wing issue. His connective tissue was easy to separate, so I expect he'll be tender and I'll roast him in the oven slathered in BBQ sauce.

One of the New Hampshires had their legs go out when I was out of town the week before last, so it was really me putting that one out of its misery rather than processing that one. Gave it a few days in isolation with food and water to see if it would perk up, and it didn't. Its legs were still moving, the toes could grab and move, and extend, no curled up toes, but the hock joints just didn't work any more, and the bird couldn't stand up at all. It was alert, but laid on its side. I've had a couple CX and a ginger broiler that had their hocks go out in the past, and it's usually a process where it becomes harder for them to stand up but they can if they really try, but this bird couldn't even try anymore. I wonder if that progression happened when I was out of town.

This NH cockerel whose legs went out was the one raised on 20% protein chick starter / all flock from the beginning - he was getting plenty of exercise, was at a healthy weight (lighter than the birds raised with 23-24% meat bird crumble), and had a flock of 5 juvenile hens he was shepherding about in the enclosure with my oldest flock. I saw no sign of injury or bruising that could have caused the leg issue, and I'm pretty upset I lost him because he was one of the ones I'd planned to keep. Just bad genetics I guess.
I'll probably also roast the WR hen - I plucked her, and expect she'll be quite tender.

Not sure what week we're on (I'll have to look it up), but the maturing WR cockerels and some of the hens are now having feathers with rust red tips show up. Like in a splash pattern across their backs mainly. My guess is the WR are CX mixed with something red at some point to increase livability. They've been all white up to this point. The WR hens started laying last week. Got some pretty cute pullet eggs that are a dingy white (not blinding white like if they had the zinc white gene). No idea if they're fertile. The roos are starting to scratch up the WR hens, so I'm going to get saddles on them soon. The WR hens are pretty docile. I kept the largest 2 of 3 hens and one WR cockerel. WR male specific saddle feathers are now evident.

The one ginger broiler I processed was maybe 5 lbs. I kept her so long because she was injured from the roosters, and I wanted to give her a chance to heal. She healed up very well, and I cut out some scabs, but all her skin looked healthy, and she was laying when I processed her. She had two egg yolks in her ovaries that looked like walnuts in shape not color, about the size of a regular marble, which is not normal - they're supposed to be round. Her other internal organs looked normal. I've found anomalously shaped crops in the past for the GBs, and have seen hock issues/weakness/failure so thought I'd record that I've now seen anomalous developing yolks.

Reply to a couple of your posts on this thread... I have crossed McMurray Enhanced Delaware Broilers with Henry Noll New Hampshires from Freedom Ranger Hatchery for over 5 years and maintain two closed breeding flocks - one w/Del roo + NH hens and a couple Del hens and NH hens with a NH Roo. First couple years the F1 offspring were consistently larger/meatier weighing in 5+lb pullets and 7lb cockerels at 12-14 weeks. Just what you'd expect. I continue to strictly cull for meatbird characteristics - at 6wks cull for narrow, small, slow feathering chicks; at 8wks slower growth, smaller birds; at 10-11wks for final birds to finish. All along I identify breeding candidates. After reaching point of lay the hens are then placed into respective breeding flocks. I do this with every hatch. Then every 2 yrs I buy replacement breeders growing out the chicks to replace the 3yr olds that laid the current broiler F1s. This spring I did the 3yr replacement stock - 15 strt run NH from Freedom Ranger. Increasingly each time (this being the 3rd replenishment since foundation stock) I've observed chick grow outs are increasingly less consistent. Even the finish weights are lower. Nothing has changed in my protocols, feed or management. I attribute this to the declining quality of the Henry Noll strain managed by Freedom Ranger Hatchery. I'm not seeing consistencies from chick to finish. In fact, I'm noticing curled toes, angel wings (genetic flaws). I'm even observing smaller yolks and waterier whites in eggs in contrast to White Ply Rock layers and Del Broilers. This last hatch seemed to have more pipping issues. You could attribute all this to my management but this is only occurring in the NH eggs (because of the two closed breeding flocks I can mark eggs) that has been only sourced through Freedom Ranger. Although off cycle I will be replacing all the Henry Noll NH this next spring with chicks from another source. I've lost confidence in the NH I've bought and raised for the now past 5+ yrs. If Freedom Ranger's selection of breed stock does occur, I'm not sure it's Henry Noll's criteria. What I've been seeing is a strain reverting back to a mongrel state neither egg production or muscling/fleshing the New Hampshire is noted for - not the vigorous resiliant New Hampshire chicken. Take it for what this comment is worth. I stand by my observations.

 

[FunClucks]

Reply to a couple of your posts on this thread... I have crossed McMurray Enhanced Delaware Broilers with Henry Noll New Hampshires from Freedom Ranger Hatchery for over 5 years and maintain two closed breeding flocks - one w/Del roo + NH hens and a couple Del hens and NH hens with a NH Roo. First couple years the F1 offspring were consistently larger/meatier weighing in 5+lb pullets and 7lb cockerels at 12-14 weeks. Just what you'd expect. I continue to strictly cull for meatbird characteristics - at 6wks cull for narrow, small, slow feathering chicks; at 8wks slower growth, smaller birds; at 10-11wks for final birds to finish. All along I identify breeding candidates. After reaching point of lay the hens are then placed into respective breeding flocks. I do this with every hatch. Then every 2 yrs I buy replacement breeders growing out the chicks to replace the 3yr olds that laid the current broiler F1s. This spring I did the 3yr replacement stock - 15 strt run NH from Freedom Ranger. Increasingly each time (this being the 3rd replenishment since foundation stock) I've observed chick grow outs are increasingly less consistent. Even the finish weights are lower. Nothing has changed in my protocols, feed or management. I attribute this to the declining quality of the Henry Noll strain managed by Freedom Ranger Hatchery. I'm not seeing consistencies from chick to finish. In fact, I'm noticing curled toes, angel wings (genetic flaws). I'm even observing smaller yolks and waterier whites in eggs in contrast to White Ply Rock layers and Del Broilers. This last hatch seemed to have more pipping issues. You could attribute all this to my management but this is only occurring in the NH eggs (because of the two closed breeding flocks I can mark eggs) that has been only sourced through Freedom Ranger. Although off cycle I will be replacing all the Henry Noll NH this next spring with chicks from another source. I've lost confidence in the NH I've bought and raised for the now past 5+ yrs. If Freedom Ranger's selection of breed stock does occur, I'm not sure it's Henry Noll's criteria. What I've been seeing is a strain reverting back to a mongrel state neither egg production or muscling/fleshing the New Hampshire is noted for - not the vigorous resiliant New Hampshire chicken. Take it for what this comment is worth. I stand by my observations.

Thanks for sharing your experiences!!! I was extremely surprised with the angel wing issues myself in the NH. They've just started laying in the past few months, and I'm still reserving judgement on their eggs. My white leghorns have higher quality eggs (shell thickness and size), but it may be how I'm keeping the NH, I need to try a few different things and haven't decided yet.

What source are you going to replace your Henry Noll NH from? I'd love to know, and maybe try some in the future.

 

[SE_Gardener]

Henry Noll

Thanks for sharing your experiences!!! I was extremely surprised with the angel wing issues myself in the NH. They've just started laying in the past few months, and I'm still reserving judgement on their eggs. My white leghorns have higher quality eggs (shell thickness and size), but it may be how I'm keeping the NH, I need to try a few different things and haven't decided yet.

What source are you going to replace your Henry Noll NH from? I'd love to know, and maybe try some in the future.

Funclucks -

Henry Noll's efforts have long ended. There's a sketchy history on Freedom Ranger Hatchery's Noll NH strain. I bought my original breeders from Art's Hatchery selling day old Henry Noll NH chicks through Freedom Ranger Hatchery. So when I went back to Freedom Ranger 2020 to buy replacement breed stock the FR website stilled showed New Hampshires product description "This New Hampshire flock is owned and maintained by Henry Noll. Art's Hatchery buys fertile eggs from Henry Noll then hatches and ships day old chicks." https://web.archive.org/web/20201203110322mp_/https://www.freedomrangerhatchery.com/details.asp?List=1&Product=9 Then in 2022 going back for replacement breed stock that part of description had been removed. No longer owned/managed by Henry Noll? The Freedom Ranger website "About Us" then included history "Art Detweiler, who had been working for Freedom Ranger Hatchery since 2012, where he quickly learned the ropes of the chicken hatchery business. In 2016, Art and Lisa founded their own hatchery, started as Art’s Hatchery and now branded as Hillside Hatchery". But checking the Hillside farm page NH were no longer included. There also wasn't noted any claims of Art's breeder expertise.

I recall back sometime before 2020 seeing a photo on FR website of hundreds of NH in a fenced pasture with a huge open shed - now the NH product page shows NH in a barn. At that time I realized Art's Hatchery was a side hobby-business eventually folded into Freedom Ranger Hatchery - neither parties are a breeding operation. And because Freedom Ranger Farm likely didn't have breeder barns, the NH were being pastured raised with ZERO selection preserving Noll’s efforts. This early spring 2024 I reasoned the NH were likely “F99” but I figured the genetics could still be close enough to Henry Noll's with even stricter selection of meaty broiler type NH I may be able to salvage some of Noll’s efforts. But when I saw increased weaknesses in the 2024 than any of the previous 3 replacement batches (crossed beak, curled toes, angel wings, greater variability in size/weight, aggression, poor fertilization) I sadly realized it was clear these were not the product of Henry Noll's meatbird selection. Each passing season with each passing hatch, Henry Noll's efforts have slipped into history at the hand of Freedom Ranger Hatchery.

So here's my take on all this - My original NH breeding stock from Art's Hatchery were actually Noll NH eggs hatched by Art who sold chicks through Freedom Ranger. Henry Noll retired and Art's source for eggs dried up. At that time I believe Freedom Ranger must have acquired eggs or actual stock from Noll. Understand commercial hatcheries including Freedom Ranger, are interested in live chicks to sell - buy licensed eggs, incubate and sell to us. They are not interested nor do they have the labor/staff/expertise to manage breeding flocks - that's why they buy hatching eggs from commercial breeders. So I believe these people are merely throwing hens and roosters together in large population merely to produce eggs to hatch. Without strict meatbird trait selection, chickens will quickly revert to recessive traits which is why we are now seeing physical abnormalities and the obvious loss of those very positive NH breed characteristics of size, vigor and resilience.

I searched archives for 2022 Freedom Ranger NH and see even back then they realized these were no longer Henry Noll's strain...
"The New Hampshire chickens bred and raised by our family of hatcheries come from a flock established in 2015. [no mention of Henry Noll] That flock has been raised all naturally, in a free-range environment, for sale to organic markets. Now, you can have that same organically cultivated product for your family or business." https://web.archive.org/web/20220125224531mp_/https://www.freedomrangerhatchery.com/shop/product/new-hampshire-gmo-free-chicken/

You ask where I will source NH? Not from Freedom Ranger Hatchery and not from any other commercial hatchery. My plan is to search online for NH breeders who exhibit their birds because their birds will be truest to breed standard. From there begin the breed/hatch/select/cull process. I’ve stated on this forum many times buying from commercial hatcheries is a crap shoot – don’t expect to source breeding stock from them. My recommendation is to find solid dual purpose birds and go through the arduous process of breed/hatch/select/cull. You’re not going to find “shake and bake” breed stock – at least at a price you’re willing to pay.

 

[FunClucks]

Henry Noll

Funclucks -

Henry Noll's efforts have long ended. There's a sketchy history on Freedom Ranger Hatchery's Noll NH strain. I bought my original breeders from Art's Hatchery selling day old Henry Noll NH chicks through Freedom Ranger Hatchery. So when I went back to Freedom Ranger 2020 to buy replacement breed stock the FR website stilled showed New Hampshires product description "This New Hampshire flock is owned and maintained by Henry Noll. Art's Hatchery buys fertile eggs from Henry Noll then hatches and ships day old chicks." https://web.archive.org/web/20201203110322mp_/https://www.freedomrangerhatchery.com/details.asp?List=1&Product=9 Then in 2022 going back for replacement breed stock that part of description had been removed. No longer owned/managed by Henry Noll? The Freedom Ranger website "About Us" then included history "Art Detweiler, who had been working for Freedom Ranger Hatchery since 2012, where he quickly learned the ropes of the chicken hatchery business. In 2016, Art and Lisa founded their own hatchery, started as Art’s Hatchery and now branded as Hillside Hatchery". But checking the Hillside farm page NH were no longer included. There also wasn't noted any claims of Art's breeder expertise.

I recall back sometime before 2020 seeing a photo on FR website of hundreds of NH in a fenced pasture with a huge open shed - now the NH product page shows NH in a barn. At that time I realized Art's Hatchery was a side hobby-business eventually folded into Freedom Ranger Hatchery - neither parties are a breeding operation. And because Freedom Ranger Farm likely didn't have breeder barns, the NH were being pastured raised with ZERO selection preserving Noll’s efforts. This early spring 2024 I reasoned the NH were likely “F99” but I figured the genetics could still be close enough to Henry Noll's with even stricter selection of meaty broiler type NH I may be able to salvage some of Noll’s efforts. But when I saw increased weaknesses in the 2024 than any of the previous 3 replacement batches (crossed beak, curled toes, angel wings, greater variability in size/weight, aggression, poor fertilization) I sadly realized it was clear these were not the product of Henry Noll's meatbird selection. Each passing season with each passing hatch, Henry Noll's efforts have slipped into history at the hand of Freedom Ranger Hatchery.

So here's my take on all this - My original NH breeding stock from Art's Hatchery were actually Noll NH eggs hatched by Art who sold chicks through Freedom Ranger. Henry Noll retired and Art's source for eggs dried up. At that time I believe Freedom Ranger must have acquired eggs or actual stock from Noll. Understand commercial hatcheries including Freedom Ranger, are interested in live chicks to sell - buy licensed eggs, incubate and sell to us. They are not interested nor do they have the labor/staff/expertise to manage breeding flocks - that's why they buy hatching eggs from commercial breeders. So I believe these people are merely throwing hens and roosters together in large population merely to produce eggs to hatch. Without strict meatbird trait selection, chickens will quickly revert to recessive traits which is why we are now seeing physical abnormalities and the obvious loss of those very positive NH breed characteristics of size, vigor and resilience.

I searched archives for 2022 Freedom Ranger NH and see even back then they realized these were no longer Henry Noll's strain...
"The New Hampshire chickens bred and raised by our family of hatcheries come from a flock established in 2015. [no mention of Henry Noll] That flock has been raised all naturally, in a free-range environment, for sale to organic markets. Now, you can have that same organically cultivated product for your family or business." https://web.archive.org/web/20220125224531mp_/https://www.freedomrangerhatchery.com/shop/product/new-hampshire-gmo-free-chicken/

You ask where I will source NH? Not from Freedom Ranger Hatchery and not from any other commercial hatchery. My plan is to search online for NH breeders who exhibit their birds because their birds will be truest to breed standard. From there begin the breed/hatch/select/cull process. I’ve stated on this forum many times buying from commercial hatcheries is a crap shoot – don’t expect to source breeding stock from them. My recommendation is to find solid dual purpose birds and go through the arduous process of breed/hatch/select/cull. You’re not going to find “shake and bake” breed stock – at least at a price you’re willing to pay.

SE Gardener, thanks for the detailed summary of your experiences with the NHs. This is very helpful information and clarifies some of the things I've been wondering about but couldn't find information on. If you have the time and inclination to share, I'd love to hear how your efforts go once it comes time for you to identify and purchase new NH dual purpose breedstock. It's frustrating to me that Freedom Ranger is selling NH with so many genetic issues. Doesn't seem ethical to me, but I guess FR and myself have different philosophies and different intents for our flocks. It seems a shame that Henry Noll's work has essentially been undone because the correct culling of the breedstock was not kept up with.

 

[SE_Gardener]

SE Gardener, thanks for the detailed summary of your experiences with the NHs. This is very helpful information and clarifies some of the things I've been wondering about but couldn't find information on. If you have the time and inclination to share, I'd love to hear how your efforts go once it comes time for you to identify and purchase new NH dual purpose breedstock. It's frustrating to me that Freedom Ranger is selling NH with so many genetic issues. Doesn't seem ethical to me, but I guess FR and myself have different philosophies and different intents for our flocks. It seems a shame that Henry Noll's work has essentially been undone because the correct culling of the breedstock was not kept up with.

I'm not is a hurry to buy NH. I have a nearly 10 yr program which I have developed my own meatbird breed stock. I've learned to identify which hens/eggs produce large fast developing pullets/cockerels and next year incubate 50 then go through my selection/ cull process keep the outstanding few as breeder candidates and finish the rest as meat birds. I only went back to FR to refresh genetics. As for ethics - Freedom Ranger Hatchery has done nothing wrong. They are not stock breeders, never advertised their chicks as such and offer them for sale. Simple. Re-read my post

• "Understand commercial hatcheries including Freedom Ranger, are interested in live chicks to sell - buy licensed eggs, incubate and sell to us. They are not interested nor do they have the labor/staff/expertise to manage breeding flocks - that's why they buy hatching eggs from commercial breeders."

• "I’ve stated on this forum many times buying from commercial hatcheries is a crap shoot – don’t expect to source breeding stock from them."

There are NO guarantees in breeding - whether horses, dogs, cats or chickens. Merely mating a male with a female carries no guarantees. If you do get offspring they will represent the genotype (parent genetic traits) and phenotype (result of parents genetic traits as influenced by their environment). It takes a lot of researching, learning and in hopes to produce something like what you want and then there's the selection of traits you want and the ultimate culling that takes place. It's not easy and there are no guarantees although if you have done your homework you have greater odds of the offspring being closer to what you're looking for AND it may take a couple generations to get there.

 

[Molpet]

Good Shepherd has been working on heritage breeds. They started a hatchery this year.
https://goodshepherdconservancy.org/hatchery/?v=914fddbcac3b

They were selling the meat through heritage foods to support their efforts. People were asking for chicks so they first went to breeders but this year they are selling to anyone. Expensive $10 a chick. But if I had room....

 

[SE_Gardener]

Good Shepherd has been working on heritage breeds. They started a hatchery this year.
https://goodshepherdconservancy.org/hatchery/?v=914fddbcac3b

They were selling the meat through heritage foods to support their efforts. People were asking for chicks so they first went to breeders but this year they are selling to anyone. Expensive $10 a chick. But if I had room....

For Good Shepherd to achieve APA Certification, they try very hard to produce chickens that meet the breed standard - which will cite egg production because that trait is desired by the majority of APA membership who support the rules. APA Certification is a good indicator of solid stock to buy. And if you look at what exhibition breeders charge the $10 is paltry. If they were indeed breeding true to standard and produced meatbirds, they ought to charge 2-3X that for chicks. This should indicate to people the indescriminate breeding by hatcheries (other than licensed hatch eggs) has resulted in offsprings inferior to APA standards. Good Shepherd appears to be a good source for dual purpose birds. Good Shepherd Delaware – APA Certified (meets breed standard) https://goodshepherdconservancy.org/about/?v=914fddbcac3b#birds

Here's pic last Oct Delaware rooster – produced from my breed stock – would not meet APA standards – he doesn’t meet the breed standard. I also included a pic of both Del and NH roosters late last fall. You can see how far Freedom Ranger has deviated from the Noll strain. Everyone was molting and not at their best but you can see both roosters have similar phenotype - I select for large breasts balanced with large leg/thigh. However my selection criteria is meatbird traits which is not consistent with APA.

Notice the difference in the depth of breast between the two roosters. I started with the best stock available and over multiple generations strictly selected for meat bird traits. So starting with eggs/chicks from APA certified parents and strictly culling for meatbird traits you can achieve a more consistent F1 meatbird progeny. In spite of my selective breeding every so often smaller (layer type) birds happen because genetics are that strong in quality foundation breeders. I see it as a small price for majority of finished birds weighing in 4-1/2lb pullets and 6-1/2-7lb cockerels..