Moving Forward- Breeding for Resistance to Marek's Disease

[feather13]

Thank you everyone for this thread! New chicken mom, and just a few weeks ago I had my first Marek's fatality. She was an 8 mos old Lavender Orpington. Nursed her by hand for 2 weeks before she succumbed. Nobody could diagnose her while alive, not the vet nor the NJ Dept of Animal Health Services who came out. But a necropsy proved that she had MArek's and Cocci, though she did not have any tumors. My other 5 do not have any symptoms. They were all vaccinated and I got them from a local farm that is NPIP certified.
This thread has helped a lot with trying to move forward after this in a way that keeps my remaining hens as healthy as possible.

I was really looking forward to hatching some chicks under a broody hen this spring but if I understand correctly, even if my day old chicks are vaccinated my assumption is they would be exposed to a Marek's positive environment before it takes effect, thus leaving them essentially as unvaccinated chickens and very prone to falling ill from Marek's in the future.
Can someone confirm if that's the correct way of thinking? I really didn't want to do the whole brooder experience again.
Thanks!
Katie

Hi Katie,

Sorry your poor birds and you have had to deal with this terrible disease. We have Mareks in our flock too. I'm definitely not an expert, but I don't think the vaccine will be effective on your day-old chicks if they are in any way exposed to virus shed by the dander of your broody hen or any of the other birds in your flock.

We got vaccinated chicks eight months ago and kept them in a brooder for several months far away from our flock. I think though you'd be ok keeping your birds separated for a few days to a week, but that would mean going the brooder route again.

 

[Diannastarr]

First and foremost- I started this thread for people to share their experience with dealing with Marek's Disease- particularily those who are breeding for resistance. I encourage everyone to share their knowledge, experience, and perhaps support others who are also struggling with how to move forward.

Whew. Okay. I will spare y'all a blow by blow account, but after being a HUGE biosecurity advocate, I recently had a bird diagnosed with Marek's. I had went all out...disinfecting after going to the feed store, never going to other peoples farms who had chickens, only buying hatching eggs to reduce any possible diseases, etc. etc. etc. Yet MD STILL made its way into my flock. It's been about a month...I have had to cull about 10 birds so far. Most of them pullets. Go figure I can only chalk it up to bad luck...after all, I do live in GA, and there are about 10 chicken houses within a two mile radius of my house...literally disease INCUBATORS. It could have came from ANYWHERE. I have gone through feeling shocked, angry, depressed, and now I'm just resolved to move on. I REFUSE to think that a MD diagnosis is a death knell for my entire flock, or to my chicken keeping.

Me being the biology major that I am, I immediately set out to find as much information as I could...only to be bitterly disappointed. There seems to be three different camps on how to deal with MD- depopulate (old timers said to burn the chicken house to the ground with the chickens in it. Not happening.) and wait AT LEAST one year (studies have found the virus to survive for 65 weeks), keep a closed flock & vaccinate any incoming birds, and lastly, breed for resistance. This last group seems to be woefully small....

The depopulation route is not an option for me. Not that I have a problem culling birds, but because the thought of my birds catching MD again, after all the work and wait, is just unimaginable. Vaccination seems like a good route initially, until I found out that the vaccine does NOT prevent infection, only lessens the symptoms if infected, and in turn potentially perpetuating the problem by extending the life of a bird that is infected, and therefore shedding the virus....the be blown by the wind or carried by a wild bird or inadvertently by me. These virus containing particles can be microscopic, y'all. I would NEVER intentially infect anyone else's flock, but what am I supposed to do? Wear a hazmat suit? I would never judge or put down anyone who has chosen a different route, but the only thing that has made sense to me is to breed for resistance. I know it can be done. I know it will be heartbreaking to cull all affected birds...but I feel that it is the best way to deal with this insidious disease. So I would love for y'all to share your experiences on breeding for resistance! Thanks for reading my rant!

Special thanks to seminolewind who heard me out

 

[Diannastarr]

HI ALL , i know this is an old collection of advice , but just in case i have some thing i ave been useing to help kill off Marek's, i found one at a time in my free ranging birds , i lost a few birds they just died with no reason for the death, then one roo that had beed in a pen lost the ability to walk , so i put him in a dog crate to keep the others from harming him , he seemed fine happy to see all his friends & every day he ate and seemed to enjoy his food, i started to treat him with the best quality colloidal silver i got from amazon its called MESO colloidal silver , i take it and it has cured my bad tooth , and other problems , it will clean skin and heal up any cuts or small infections it can clear up your face ...!!so i hoped to save this roo, but with in a week i found him dead one morninghe was to far gone i suppose ..? next i had a hen that came down with a problem with her legs , she could still walk but needed to squat to walk , i gave her colloidal silver 1 tbl a day i poured over bread i cut into tiny pieces she ate it all, then it seemed she was still not able to wa;lk properly , so i changed to giving her colloidal silver once a month , hoping to cure her long term , a few months went but and i was dealing with several other things , when one day i was looking for my red girl the squat walking hen , i could not find her any were..? , she was missing..??, i realized that she had not died or had been caught by some wild animal, she was around & she was walking normaly, i marked her with some blue coat so i could find her amoung all the other hens out free ranging & she was better with a little help from colloidal silver no other sick birds since & its been 8 months & little red girl is better , but i also started giving her 2 tbl ever 2 days of colloidal silver, then once week , & once a month for long term , im not sure if im on to some thing that can kill off that horrible Marek's , but i feel i can help my flick to develope a resistance ,& its been working..? i also cured all my wild born cats of feline lukima... sorry my spell check is broken : ) but i cured all my wild cats with 2 tbl of colloidal silver per cat every day mixed in some canned cat food for a week to 10 days, they are all well and its been 1 1/2 years since , so no relaps on any illness here, i use colloidal silver no matter what , its my first go to , i used it on a badly bleeding comb , after blotting the blood which needed many kleenex to soak up the blood , then it stopped the blood flow when spraying the colloidal silver on the area , it did stop the blood , & i did send for some of that blood stop stuff but its still in the mail , i feel if any new birds come on my land, like some day i will need new chicks , then i will put them in a seprate area & give them the cure first...!!!! added into some small bits of bread enought to soak up the colloidal silver, 2 tbl every day per adult size birds for a good 10 days or maybe for chicks added into there water ..? that will be the wall to help stop Marek's , its worth a try...!! & i will try it..! since out of no were that horrible Marek's started up in my flock that were 5 years old..? how did that happen ..? but at least when i used the colloidal silver it did seem to cure them..? plus its helping them to develope a reststance . sorry for any bad spelling : ) take care all but give it a Try, since what other remidies do we have..???

 

[microchick]

First off you have to remember that Marek's disease is basically a herpes infection found in chickens as it (herpes) is found in humans. Only in chickens, the herpes manifests itself either by neurological/tumors or ocular symptoms.

There is no cure for herpes. In humans, it stays in the hosts body for the duration of their lives. Have you ever had a cold sore? Chicken pox? Shingles as a result of chicken pox? They are all herpes infections caused by a herpes virus that is different from that which infests chickens.

Colloidal silver is a marvelous thing and I've read of people using it to treat MD. I am a retired nurse and am familiar with it being used in wound treatment. I'm not poo pooing it as being an antiviral but I have my doubts that it has cured your flock of Marek's disease. If it had any value at all as a serious anti herpes treatment it would have been blasting across the medical airways as well as veterinary airways as a knock out drug for treatment of herpes in human beings as well as poultry and sorry, I've not heard any such thing anywhere and both my husband and I are retired medical professionals who keep our fingers on the pulse of medical breakthroughs.

I'm not doubting that your chickens got better but are you sure you are dealing with Mareks? Have you had a necropsy done to verify? There are other medical conditions that cause temporary paralysis in chickens.

Personally I have been dealing with Marek's disease/confirmed in my flock for almost 5 years now. Marek's is everywhere and I've dealt with every form of the disease. If Colloidal Silver has worked for you and your flock, I applaud your success and your efforts.

@6_year_Eer It's miserable isn't it? You sound as though you have been through the same ordeal I have been through and it happened to you the same way it happened to me.

Is my flock stable? I hold my breath and knock on wood as I have been dealing with this for 5 years but at the moment, yes, my flock is stable. I reached this point by getting rid of my original flock that succumbed and or were carriers and introduced chicks hatched from eggs I brought in from an Amish neighbor's healthy flock that seem to have a resistance to the local strain of MD. I also brought in Egyptian Fayoumis that are genetically resistant to Marek's disease.

I'm currently working on my second and third generations from the Amish barnyard birds and second generation cross breeds from my Fayoumis and local birds.

I'm in Missouri which requires eggs shipped in or out to be done by an NPIP registered breeder so it would be hard. In state I might be tempted but even then I would hesitate. The strain of Marek's I dealt with was as brutal as yours was but there is no saying that it was the same strain.

Have you ever considered EFs as naturally resistant birds as new members for your flock? Mine were vaccinated on top of being naturally resistant and outside of losing one to parasites, they are doing very well.

I'll sure be watching to see how your experiment goes. Good luck!

 

[Diannastarr]

THANKS i know what you say & good luck to you ...!!! yes im always looking for an answer, since i believe that a problem is something the answer has not been found yet , and everything has an answer under the sun..!!, ive treated all my other animals with colloidal silver including my self of an absessed tooth , its cured us all including my 50 year old parret, polly wally , but he named him self Burt....lol..& Burt is fine after an illness he had years ago i treated him with colloidal silver & im sure he will make it to 100 ..lol.. he is in my will, to be left to my kids along with all my other animals including all my chickens , answer to your question have you ever considered EFs as naturally resistant birds as new members for your flock? no i didnt know that, but thanks good info..!!! have an egg buisness, and need members of my flock to be great egg layers , so i have all the best egg layers they feed me & i feed them itsa good way to go ...lol... & since ive seen colloidal silver work is my plan to keep them all healthy to stay around , after the results i have seen seems to be the cure for any human, bird or animal herpes & it is colloidal silver , but i must caution all those trying to do the same with colloidal silver we must always use the best quality colloidal silver available, i found MESO brand colloidal silver is the best available I GET IT AT AMAZON , its got to be the best quality to do the job ...!!! : )

 

[RoostersAreAwesome]

HI ALL , i know this is an old collection of advice , but just in case i have some thing i ave been useing to help kill off Marek's, i found one at a time in my free ranging birds , i lost a few birds they just died with no reason for the death, then one roo that had beed in a pen lost the ability to walk , so i put him in a dog crate to keep the others from harming him , he seemed fine happy to see all his friends & every day he ate and seemed to enjoy his food, i started to treat him with the best quality colloidal silver i got from amazon its called MESO colloidal silver , i take it and it has cured my bad tooth , and other problems , it will clean skin and heal up any cuts or small infections it can clear up your face ...!!so i hoped to save this roo, but with in a week i found him dead one morninghe was to far gone i suppose ..? next i had a hen that came down with a problem with her legs , she could still walk but needed to squat to walk , i gave her colloidal silver 1 tbl a day i poured over bread i cut into tiny pieces she ate it all, then it seemed she was still not able to wa;lk properly , so i changed to giving her colloidal silver once a month , hoping to cure her long term , a few months went but and i was dealing with several other things , when one day i was looking for my red girl the squat walking hen , i could not find her any were..? , she was missing..??, i realized that she had not died or had been caught by some wild animal, she was around & she was walking normaly, i marked her with some blue coat so i could find her amoung all the other hens out free ranging & she was better with a little help from colloidal silver no other sick birds since & its been 8 months & little red girl is better , but i also started giving her 2 tbl ever 2 days of colloidal silver, then once week , & once a month for long term , im not sure if im on to some thing that can kill off that horrible Marek's , but i feel i can help my flick to develope a resistance ,& its been working..? i also cured all my wild born cats of feline lukima... sorry my spell check is broken : ) but i cured all my wild cats with 2 tbl of colloidal silver per cat every day mixed in some canned cat food for a week to 10 days, they are all well and its been 1 1/2 years since , so no relaps on any illness here, i use colloidal silver no matter what , its my first go to , i used it on a badly bleeding comb , after blotting the blood which needed many kleenex to soak up the blood , then it stopped the blood flow when spraying the colloidal silver on the area , it did stop the blood , & i did send for some of that blood stop stuff but its still in the mail , i feel if any new birds come on my land, like some day i will need new chicks , then i will put them in a seprate area & give them the cure first...!!!! added into some small bits of bread enought to soak up the colloidal silver, 2 tbl every day per adult size birds for a good 10 days or maybe for chicks added into there water ..? that will be the wall to help stop Marek's , its worth a try...!! & i will try it..! since out of no were that horrible Marek's started up in my flock that were 5 years old..? how did that happen ..? but at least when i used the colloidal silver it did seem to cure them..? plus its helping them to develope a reststance . sorry for any bad spelling : ) take care all but give it a Try, since what other remidies do we have..???

Chickens can recover from the symptoms of Marek’s on their own, so it isn’t unheard of to have a chicken get their ability to walk back. It doesn’t mean they don’t have the disease, they’re still carriers of it.

 

[microchick]

Chickens can recover from the symptoms of Marek’s on their own, so it isn’t unheard of to have a chicken get their ability to walk back. It doesn’t mean they don’t have the disease, they’re still carriers of it.

Plus the survivors will usually live shorter lives and succumb to the secondary diseases of Marek's namely tumors.

I've had that happen to a beautiful rooster who was sweet and gentle with both the hens and humans. He was gone in the blink of an eye to tumors in his throat. He was just under two years old and never showed a reaction to the primary MD infection that most get when they are 9 weeks old. I had hopes he was going to be the 'one' who survived the disease as he was almost 2 but by the time I found his tumors (hidden in his thick hackle feathers and dangling big wattles) it was too late and I had to put him down.

Marek's will also affect the laying life of any surviving hen. Most have shorter laying lives and are more prone to reproductive problems/prolapses/cancers.

I've been working since December on an article for BYC chronicling my experiences with the disease in my flock. It's not a scientific or informative article. I could never compete with Nambroth's excellent article. It's just my attempt to show people that there is life as a chicken keeper after Marek's Disease hits your flock. I hope to have it done by spring. I'm doing rewrites now and working on illustrations then it is good to go.

 

[feather13]

I'm so sorry you lost your rooster and other birds in your flock to Mareks . We have confirmed Mareks in our flock thanks to an unethical local breeder (according to his Yelp reviews, dozens of other folks with chickens got Mareks through him) and it's been devastating. We recently got a batch of Mareks-vaccinated chicks from Murray McMurray and are crossing our fingers they won't develop tumors, although of course they've been exposed. They're now nine months old and I almost feel sick to my stomach sometimes watching them for any of the telltale Mareks signs.

And thank you so much for writing your BYC article! I can't wait to read it and know it will be so helpful to those of us with Mareks. Having Mareks means not being able to give away/trade birds (or visit anyone's flock), is literally heartbreaking, and can make chicken keepers feel like failures. So I know your article will mean a lot to us. If anything good can possibly come out of the Covid epidemic, I hope it's more research into all kinds of other human and non-human animal viruses.

 

[Diannastarr]

Chickens can recover from the symptoms of Marek’s on their own, so it isn’t unheard of to have a chicken get their ability to walk back. It doesn’t mean they don’t have the disease, they’re still carriers of it.

thanks good info : ) i was hoping my flock will build up a resistantance , even if they all have it ..? they can remain alive & still active & there chicks will be born with that same resistance fingers crossed...!! i hoping to make a good start into creating a resistance in my birds ..!! and making Marek's a thing of the past , colloidal silver has had a good effect on any animal i had used it on , including my self & reading up on it i found they say it can kill viruses like HIV , unlike any other meds ever before, so its worth a try .

 

[microchick]

Thank you @feather13. I am so sorry to hear that you are going through this heartache also. Yes, Marek's disease is a heartbreaker. Mine came from a breeder breeding for resistance. I never thought that there were different strains of Marek's disease or the possibility that while resistant to the strain in place A doesn't mean that birds are resistant to the strain in place B.

Hindsight is always 20/20.

If it is any consolation, I have brought vaccinated chicks into my flock, bantams and my Egyptian Fayoumis and they are all doing well knock on wood. The oldest are three years old now and so far so good so there is a silver lining around that cloud. It might be a bit dingy and tarnished but by golly, it's there.

Hang in there. It doesn't go away but it does get better.

And thank you so much for your words of encouragement. Makes me think it is time to get out the sketch pad and work on some more illos. I'm trying to shine a different light on the disease, one of hope instead of one of despair.

Mainly I want people who are fighting this disease in their flocks to know that they aren't alone in their battle.