Mystery quarantine illness

[kfelton0002]

So I have some chicks from a breeder that is NPIP certified. They range in age from 2-4 weeks old. I have been keeping them inside in a large tote until they were ready to go out to the brooder, and I wanted to keep an eye on them for disease. I have been hatching chicks of my own and had some chicks picking on some of the smaller chicks so I put a few of my oldest chicks into the brooder with the quarantined chicks. I honestly didn't think a thing about it. At that point there was no sign of disease. I have had the chicks from the breeder since the 11th of March.

A few days ago the 3 chicks (that I hatched here) that I put into the brooder with the ones from the breeder started drooping up and acting like they were cold even though the brooder is warm. They have not been outside since they hatched. One died last night, and another acts like it is dying today. She is gasping for air, shaking her head at times, and is droopy. The 3rd chick is a little droopy but doesn't seem as sick. The feed I am using is Dumor medicated chick starter. I have been giving them Corid since yesterday just in case.

Today I noticed one of the chicks I got from the breeder is sneezing/coughing. There really is no other symptoms in that group that I have seen. All good appetites, vigorous, no droopy chicks in the bunch. But why are the chicks I put into their brooder all of a sudden sick? They have all been in a draft free, warm brooder. I am terrified of bringing something horrible like Newcastle or Bronchitis in on my chickens.

Should I cull the entire bunch?? Any advice? I have some Terramycin water soluble antibiotic powder I may start.
Edited to add: when the chicks were shipped one was DOA and another was droopy. The droopy chick died the next day.

 

[kfelton0002]

I could really use your input @speckledhen. I have read many posts you have given advice on and your wisdom would be greatly appreciated. My husband will probably end up culling this entire group of chicks when he gets home. So depressing..

CRD, coccidiosis, or a respiratory infection I can manage.. anything any worse that could potentially harm our chickens and theyre gone. Thoughts?

 

[speckledhen]

I'd stop antibiotics immediately if you did that. They will not help. If they mask symptoms, you are still left with a bird who may be a carrier. Did the "breeder" send you chicks already hatched through the mail? If so, they can certainly come carrying disease and have passed it to the ones you put in with them. NPIP means nothing, absolutely NOTHING, I don't care if folks brag that they are, but it means nada when it comes to disease. I'd say treat for cocci with Corid as you're doing, but that does not cause respiratory illness. BUT, continue the Corid. Cocci can be part of the problem, but I don't think it's all of the problem. Hard to say, but the fact that chicks you had became ill when exposed to the ones you received tells me the ones that were sent already had something.

 

[kfelton0002]

I'd stop antibiotics immediately if you did that. They will not help. If they mask symptoms, you are still left with a bird who may be a carrier. Did the "breeder" send you chicks already hatched through the mail? If so, they can certainly come carrying disease and have passed it to the ones you put in with them. NPIP means nothing, absolutely NOTHING, I don't care if folks brag that they are, but it means nada when it comes to disease. I'd say treat for cocci with Corid as you're doing, but that does not cause respiratory illness. BUT, continue the Corid. Cocci can be part of the problem, but I don't think it's all of the problem. Hard to say, but the fact that chicks you had became ill when exposed to the ones you received tells me the ones that were sent already had something.

I didnt start antibiotics yet. I was trying to see if the corid was going to help.

Yes the chicks were shipped through the mail. Half were day old chicks and half were 2 weeks old when they were shipped. I was expecting them all to be shipped as day old but by the time I knew some were older they had already been shipped.

They are on day 2 of corid. The little gasping chick will be put down. We are still trying to decide whether or not to cull the entire bunch.

What would YOU do if u were in my situation? We have a lot of money in our chickens and I will not allow these chicks to spread disease.

It has been a horrific experience to say the least. I will never buy chickens or chicks from someone else again without seeing the chickens first.

Thank you for responding. I appreciate your advice.

 

[speckledhen]

I didnt start antibiotics yet. I was trying to see if the corid was going to help.

Yes the chicks were shipped through the mail. Half were day old chicks and half were 2 weeks old when they were shipped. I was expecting them all to be shipped as day old but by the time I knew some were older they had already been shipped.

They are on day 2 of corid. The little gasping chick will be put down. We are still trying to decide whether or not to cull the entire bunch.

What would YOU do if u were in my situation? We have a lot of money in our chickens and I will not allow these chicks to spread disease.

It has been a horrific experience to say the least. I will never buy chickens or chicks from someone else again without seeing the chickens first.

Thank you for responding. I appreciate your advice.

Gosh, that's such a tough call. I'm afraid I can't make that for you.

Let's think. You've had them since March 11 so it can't be shipping stress at this late date, I wouldn't think. Seems the seller didnt know what she/he was doing, shipping different age chicks. There's a huge size diff between day old and two week old but I don't know that the age diff would matter with what's going on here, except two weeks is plenty of time for a chick to contract a present disease in the brooder/property of the breeder. Have you contacted the seller at all? Have you asked if she's ever treated for respiratory disease? Researched her/him? Sometimes, I'm sneaky and just say, "Hey, what antibiotics do you give when your birds get sick?" and if she even has an answer, you know it's not a good thing.

Make sure there is no transmission between these chicks and your flocks, first of all. Then you can think what to do. The only way to be absolutely sure, of course, is to cull all the chicks from the breeder (or propagator-I cringe when some folks call themselves breeders), and cull all the ones you put in with them and sterilize EVERYTHING. Do you have something like Virkon-S on hand for that? If you want to know how this can happen, just research gumpsgirl here on BYC. Someone gave one of her sons one chick and she did not quarantine it and it infected her entire flock, MG, I think it was. There is a thread about it. Again, if the breeder had two week olds in with the one day olds, those would most likely be the culprits, IMO.

ETA: all of this is just educated guessing. I can't say for sure what is really the issue, but the way it happened is why I'm guessing the way I am. The carriers sometimes just infect the others, don't become symptomatic themselves.

 

[kfelton0002]

I usually sanitize with bleach. Is that okay?

I was upset at the state and quality of the chicks when I received them (different ages, 1 DOA, 1 droopy, and they were a nasty poopy mess when I opened the box, not to mention just poor leg feathering for Marans) so the breeder gave me a refund. Im not sure he would be much help if I contacted him. The transaction didnt go smoothly to say the least. The younger chicks and older chicks were in separate compartment in the box.

What does the illness sound like to you? MG?

 

[speckledhen]

I usually sanitize with bleach. Is that okay?

I was upset at the state and quality of the chicks when I received them (different ages, 1 DOA, 1 droopy, and they were a nasty poopy mess when I opened the box, not to mention just poor leg feathering for Marans) so the breeder gave me a refund. Im not sure he would be much help if I contacted him. The transaction didnt go smoothly to say the least. The younger chicks and older chicks were in separate compartment in the box.

What does the illness sound like to you? MG?

Bleach will not kill the oocycsts that cause coccidiosis, only ammonia will, of the common household cleaners. You really should get some Virkon-S, comes in a small bottle of tablets, each makes one pint for a spray bottle. You can get it on Amazon or Revival Animal Health (which sells on Amazon or independently). Virkon is a fabulous cleaner for about everything. Oxine is right up there, too, but does not come in a concentrate, only a gallon jug, hefty shipping cost.

The illness could be MG, could be quite a few other things. I can't say just by the symptoms. Your experience with this person makes him sound like he's not really a breeder, just fancies himself one.


QC supply has a good price on it. Makes 50 pints, I think.


http://www.qcsupply.com/virkon-s-di...m=1100310941995&utm_content=Products Ad Group

 

[kfelton0002]

Bleach will not kill the oocycsts that cause coccidiosis, only ammonia will, of the common household cleaners. You really should get some Virkon-S, comes in a small bottle of tablets, each makes one pint for a spray bottle. You can get it on Amazon or Revival Animal Health (which sells on Amazon or independently). Virkon is a fabulous cleaner for about everything. Oxine is right up there, too, but does not come in a concentrate, only a gallon jug, hefty shipping cost. The illness could be MG, could be quite a few other things. I can't say just by the symptoms. Your experience with this person makes him sound like he's not really a breeder, just fancies himself one. QC supply has a good price on it. Makes 50 pints, I think. http://www.qcsupply.com/virkon-s-di...m=1100310941995&utm_content=Products Ad Group

Okay I will try to order some then. The 3rd chick has a runny nose now and seems more droopy today. Im just about ready to scrap the entire bunch and be done with it. Horrible, horrible, experience.

 

[speckledhen]

Okay I will try to order some then.

The 3rd chick has a runny nose now and seems more droopy today. Im just about ready to scrap the entire bunch and be done with it.

Horrible, horrible, experience.

I'm so sorry. I know how frustrating and gut-wrenching it is, just from all the many stories here on BYC over the past ten years. It's why I'm so paranoid about buying started birds.

 

[kfelton0002]

I'm so sorry. I know how frustrating and gut-wrenching it is, just from all the many stories here on BYC over the past ten years. It's why I'm so paranoid about buying started birds.

My gut is telling me it is CRD. We have dealt with it before. When a flock is healthy you see it very rarely. We treat adult birds with Tylan 50 and young chicks with LS 50. Should I just let the illness run its course with little intervention and observe the quarantined group or are they even worth dealing with?

When if ever will I know it is safe to introduce them to my other chickens if it is only CRD?

How will I know if it is something more serious?

Sorry for all the questions..