Natural breeding thread

[Perris]

they started to sleep in the trees soon after they bought them. They lost all chickens within 2 years

I let my first trios of pullets do that too, and they were predated too. Roosting in trees - or more accurately, being able to fly down and start foraging in first light, pre dawn - is the problem. Getting them in at night is the key to successful free ranging in my experience.

They didn’t have a rooster, not sure if that would have made much difference

I didn't initially, and lost birds to predators. Since I've had roos I've hardly lost any - and it was the roos who sustained the injuries on the learning curve. So I think it makes a big difference.

a rooster as the first chicken to sound the alarm when something is wrong

That's the point. The roos have their heads up and are looking around for danger the whole time, while the hens have their heads down and their minds focussed on finding food. A roo calls, and depending on the type of the alarm, the hens may scatter and hide in a flash, or just look up and around, or move closer to the nearest roo, or all come together in a tight flock with roos round the edges. It is far more sophisticated than those without roos, or who don't free range much, realize.

 

[Skyeknight]

Dogs in general are predators and there are many stories on BYC about dogs who killed chickens. Often its the neighbours dog, but peoples own dog do kill their chickens too quite often.
Only a well trained and reliable dog can protect your chickens.

The only dogs you should trust with chickens or other farm animals are trained livestock guardians. These types of dogs have been bred for that purpose for hundreds of years. And even then I wouldn't personally get one since it just feels like inviting the enemy into my home. Also just getting a dog to protect your flock feels irresponsible to me, they too need to receive proper care and social interactions.

Not all dogs are fine around chickens but any outdoor dog that can
at least ignore chickens will still be a huge deterrent to predators.

That is an incredibly big ask in my opinion. Most people don't train their dogs to stop chasing "prey" so they cannot control their dog when they run after chickens. Dogs still have a hunting instinct, it's why they chase sticks and balls and why dog toys have the squeeking sound of a dying animal. Hunting dogs are trained to listen to their owner during hunts which requires very good coordination. So they shouldn't randomly start chasing chickens when they aren't told to do so. Which is a very big difference from pet dogs.r

They didn’t have a rooster, not sure if that would have made much difference.

Many people cannot have roosters bc of city or residence laws. They have no tribes but a flock.

Roosters make all the difference, like Perris said they sound alarms, fight off predators or lead them away. They are essential to a proper functioning free ranging flock/tribe. In this specific situation you mentioned your acquaintances lived in a forest so maybe legally they could have gotten one. As for most people that have to deal with city laws banning roosters, it's a bit of a trade off. Humans scare away potential predators. When living in a city you would have to worry less about foxes and birds of prey than in the countryside. If you have a "schutting" (couldn't find a proper English word) fence around your property you also take care of most dogs, which sadly are in great numbers in cities. Furthermore, a typical Dutch backyard is in itself basically a decently sized chicken run in my opinion.

 

[BDutch]

In this specific situation you mentioned your acquaintances lived in a forest so maybe legally they could have gotten one.

They live in a suburb in a forest. All the houses have very large gardens for Dutch standards. But within city boundaries and roosters are only allowed if neighbours don’t object.

As for most people that have to deal with city laws banning roosters, it's a bit of a trade off. Humans scare away potential predators. When living in a city you would have to worry less about foxes and birds of prey than in the countryside.

Foxes are not scared by humans. Only if you go after them they flight. I have seen them in my garden in broad daylight. Once, one got into the run and killed a chicken after sunrise when the auto pop door opened. The noise alarmed us and we could prevent more casualties.

I live in the middle of a small town (around 40.000 inhabitants). During the night neighbours with a front door camera have spotted foxes, polecats and martens. And I know foxes walk around in big cities too.
But yes, foxes are a bit less a thread than in very rural environments.

About the same with birds of prey. We have less birds of prey as people eho live rural, but we do have them. We had a sparrowhawk a few meters behind our garden a few weeks ago. They hunt small bantam chickens too. And one of my bantams has been taken by a buzzerd a few years ago.
With most losses due to predators, I don't know which species is to blame.

If you have a "schutting" (couldn't find a proper English word) fence around your property you also take care of most dogs, which sadly are in great numbers in cities. Furthermore, a typical Dutch backyard is in itself basically a decently sized chicken run in my opinion.

We don’t have a fence around our garden. On two sides there are open structures (concrete mesh with 10cm maze and sheep fence) with plants growing through for a little privacy. At the end of the gardens in my street is a piece of municipality land with natural water. And we love the view too much to fence it in.

Dogs have to be kept on a leash in town. I only saw an escaped dog in my garden a couple of times. All dogs except our friendly and well trained neighbour labradoodle dog scare the out of my chickens.
In general, many people in NL have fences for privacy. Not build to lock out predators.

 

[Skyeknight]

They live in a suburb in a forest. All the houses have very large gardens for Dutch standards. But within city boundaries and roosters are only allowed if neighbours don’t object.

That is just unfortunate. I guess then a curfew for the chickens should be applied.

They hunt small bantam chickens too. And one of my bantams has been taken by a buzzerd a few years ago.

True, bantam chickens have more predators than bigger breeds. Birds of prey, corvids and rats are an additional potential threat. Maybe with bantams it is better to generally keep them locked up or free range with supervison like you have been doing. I don't have experience with bantams though.

We don’t have a fence around our garden. On two sides there are open structures (concrete mesh with 10cm maze and sheep fence) with plants growing through for a little privacy. At the end of the gardens in my street is a piece of municipality land with natural water. And we love the view too much to fence it in.

Yeah you have a stunning view from your backyard! Sadly it also mean that you will have more potential predators in your area than a standard backyard. Not building a fence to keep enjoying your view is the trade off you have made in this case, which is very understandable.

In general, many people in NL have fences for privacy. Not build to lock out predators.

True, but those fences do have the added positive of being a barrier to predators. The type of fences determines how effective they are. But a fence is better than nothing to keep out predators.

Foxes are not scared by humans. Only if you go after them they flight.

As for foxes, they are getting more used to human environments cause they feed on the thrash that is around. They have simply learned that humans are not going to be enough of a danger to stay away. So they should relearn that humans don't equal food. The presence of a dog could help with this since they are a bigger carnivore and therefore dangerous. But spreading a dogs scent should be enough if it is repeated. There might be more tips online for this.

 

[TOMTE]

As for foxes, they are getting more used to human environments cause they feed on the thrash that is around. They have simply learned that humans are not going to be enough of a danger to stay away. So they should relearn that humans don't equal food. The presence of a dog could help with this since they are a bigger carnivore and therefore dangerous. But spreading a dogs scent should be enough if it is repeated. There might be more tips online for this.

I'm pretty sure you can buy urine spray online. Spray it around the border of your property so predators recognize that this "territory" is already occupied. Not foolproof but scent markers are an important type of communication between animals.

Human urine works too but depending on where you live you can't just drop your pants and pee around your property but some people will pee in a container and dump it at the bases of trees and bushes etc. Sometimes I do go next to the run. Not often but when you gotta go, you gotta go, and if it could help keep predators away then why not?

Foxes, raccoons, bears, lots of animals are becoming less afraid of humans because humans are trying to befriend them, or help them, or whatever else. Not a good idea. It puts people and the animals themselves in danger. Eg a "friendly" bear that has been fed by humans and is comfortable around them is potentially a very dangerous bear. Comfort leads to boldness. If you want to keep these guys away from your property you need to make them wary or even afraid of humans.

Loud noises, motion sensor sprinklers and lights, keep trash securely locked up, DO NOT FEED THE WILD ANIMALS... These are much more affordable options than buying a dog, training it, keeping it fed and healthy... Not to mention the vet bills. LGDs get themselves injured and sick just from being out there in the elements. Vets are not cheap. Especially emergency vets, and a dog being outside 24/7 is an emergency waiting to happen.

(I don't have a problem with people owning LGDs in general. Some people think it's cruel to the dogs, I don't agree, as long as it's done correctly. I just cant imagine having the funds to deal with an emergency at any point!)

 

[Skyeknight]

I'm pretty sure you can buy urine spray online. Spray it around the border of your property so predators recognize that this "territory" is already occupied. Not foolproof but scent markers are an important type of communication between animals.

Human urine works too but depending on where you live you can't just drop your pants and pee around your property but some people will pee in a container and dump it at the bases of trees and bushes etc. Sometimes I do go next to the run. Not often but when you gotta go, you gotta go, and if it could help keep predators away then why not?

Foxes, raccoons, bears, lots of animals are becoming less afraid of humans because humans are trying to befriend them, or help them, or whatever else. Not a good idea. It puts people and the animals themselves in danger. Eg a "friendly" bear that has been fed by humans and is comfortable around them is potentially a very dangerous bear. Comfort leads to boldness. If you want to keep these guys away from your property you need to make them wary or even afraid of humans.

Loud noises, motion sensor sprinklers and lights, keep trash securely locked up, DO NOT FEED THE WILD ANIMALS... These are much more affordable options than buying a dog, training it, keeping it fed and healthy... Not to mention the vet bills. LGDs get themselves injured and sick just from being out there in the elements. Vets are not cheap. Especially emergency vets, and a dog being outside 24/7 is an emergency waiting to happen.

(I don't have a problem with people owning LGDs in general. Some people think it's cruel to the dogs, I don't agree, as long as it's done correctly. I just cant imagine having the funds to deal with an emergency at any point!)

I completely agree with your statements! Bdutch mentioned her neighbour has a friendly dog, so thought maybe she could work with that somehow. Urine spray might not be available in the Netherlands, just did a quick google search in Dutch and only to get rid of pets urine smell came up. The English search did have some come up but mainly for North America. Only since 2015 do we have a wolves in the Netherlands, before that I think the fox was the biggest predator. So we aren't used to dealing with predator stuff like that. We always have had boars in specific area's and for some reason people aren't afraid of them. But as far as I know they don't take your chickens.

 

[TexasBlues]

I know these threads are going downhill once somebody starts talking about peeing to scare off predators. If you're having to buy urine to protect your chickens, you've gone down the wrong road and need to turn around.
So far removed from the original post of using a broody hen to naturally raise chicks.
To the person that says only trained livestock guardians that have been bred for 100s of years are trustworthy... gimme a break. I could easily find 10 examples on this site of LGDs killing chickens and 10 examples of mutts that are good at protecting chickens.

 

[TOMTE]

I know these threads are going downhill once somebody starts talking about peeing to scare off predators. If you're having to buy urine to protect your chickens, you've gone down the wrong road and need to turn around.
So far removed from the original post of using a broody hen to naturally raise chicks.
To the person that says only trained livestock guardians that have been bred for 100s of years are trustworthy... gimme a break. I could easily find 10 examples on this site of LGDs killing chickens and 10 examples of mutts that are good at protecting chickens.

Good point that it's not on topic of the thread. I didn't mean to derail.

However, how is using urine as a protective/preventative measure wrong? I never said it's the only way to protect your flock... Just that it can help turn predators away, on top of other measures. I don't think I'm "doing it wrong" just because very occasionally I use urine as a scent marker to tell other animals that this territory is spoken for and if it doesn't work, then I'm just wasting my time with it. I still have other ways of protecting my flock.

You also have a good point about the LGDs. It depends not only on breeding but training as well. No specific breed is better at protecting chickens or any livestock than another. A LGD with careful breeding may be more inclined to be a good protector, but in the end it still comes down to training. But even a well bred, well trained LGD (or any dog) will still go through teenagehood and test boundaries, which is when most attacks/kills happen

 

[Skyeknight]

So far removed from the original post of using a broody hen to naturally raise chicks.

My apologies you are right. It has derailed into general free ranging stuff. Back on topicish, does anyone already have chickens going broody? Actually from what month on can I expect broody chickens?

 

[TOMTE]

My apologies you are right. It has derailed into general free ranging stuff. Back on topicish, does anyone already have chickens going broody? Actually from what month on can I expect broody chickens?

I haven't had any broodies yet, but I was told (and maybe it depends on where in the world you are, your climate, amount of daylight, etc) that April is broody month. Don't know how true that is but it was someone with experience with broodies who told me.