Natural breeding thread

[wrathsfarm]

I've done a bit of digging on this, and come up with something that may be relevant or at least interesting.

It's called intraspecific egg or chick killing, and it was recognized already in the 1990s in some species where there were chances that eggs and chicks could get mixed up (note the similarity with chickens sharing nest boxes). If the egg or chick is also eaten it is a variety of predation. The explanation for it at the time (Cambridge encyclopaedia of ornithology 1991: 274) was eggs or chicks getting into the wrong nest *or* (and this I think may be relevant) as a result of it being recognised as someone else's. "In virtually all colonial species studied, where there is a risk of eggs getting mixed up, either within the breeding colony or within creches, adults and offspring are able to recognize each other in some way."

Very interesting.

Could your broodies have attacked chicks that hatched from eggs laid by other hens?

In both cases, the nest was hers and it was the nest they chose. The eggs placed under them both on day 0 were not specifically 'their' eggs.

But just to be thorough here we're talking about test mating and hatching Black Copper Marans in a BCM flock.

All eggs under each broody were BCM eggs from 2 other BCM hens, no mix ups, all marked, none added.

This pic is just an example....All eggs are Ravens, all dated and marked under a broody (not Raven), leg banded after hatch color coded to Raven.

 

[Perris]

The eggs placed under them both on day 0 were not specifically 'their' eggs.

But just to be thorough here we're talking about test mating and hatching Black Copper Marans in a BCM flock.

All eggs under each broody were BCM eggs from 2 other BCM hens

a hen brooding other hens' eggs of the same breed makes it similar to the observed cases from the 90s then, e.g. in colonies of gannets, terns, gulls, skuas. The recognition concerned is of the individual's own eggs, not the species. An ability to recognize their individual eggs amongst others of their breed has even been tested and demonstrated with guillemots.

 

[Altairsky]

Natural breeding and free ranging can get awkward if there are a lot of chick-predators around like rats, cats, blue jays, crows, etc. And I have many of those walking and flying around. 5 neighbour cats walk in my garden every day.

I lost several small chicks/pullets with free ranging. I keep my mama’s inside a run when I can’t supervise. Dividing the run in two makes it possible to free range the adults and keep the chicks safe.

My neighbor has several cats, and they successfully hunted things as big as magpies.
I was sure I would lose chicks to those cats, but I lose none. Instead, after the hens hatched chicks I never saw a cat on my property again.
My property has became pure hell for all neighboring cats.
There are also magpies nesting on my neighbor's tree and countless crows. I never lost a chick to them. It's much easier to lose incubator chicks to predators, but not broody chicks. Their mother and father are willing to die to protect them. Motherless chicks are an easy meal, not those protected by the flock.

 

[Shadrach]

a hen brooding other hens' eggs of the same breed makes it similar to the observed cases from the 90s then, e.g. in colonies of gannets, terns, gulls, skuas. The recognition concerned is of the individual's own eggs, not the species. An ability to recognize their individual eggs amongst others of their breed has even been tested and demonstrated with guillemots.

I've believed this for many years. It's not something yet again that is going to get much traction on BYC.

As an example, there are others from my articles, I've not read a study of moulting hens goint off their usual feed. While a very small sample it appears that hens going off their feed during moult is pretty common.

https://www.backyardchickens.com/th...off-their-usual-feed-when-they-moult.1498056/

One is dependant on people observations and it's safe to assume that in some keeping circumstances such behaviour won't be noticed. In the above case enough people have noticed to make this an issue. I've not found any "science" studies on the topic.
The same applies to the egg song, dust bathing, feed types, pecking and doubtless many more topics completely overlooked by the chicken scientists.

It's worth bearing in mind that "studies" are usually just a group or individual obseving chickens in a controlled environment and formally presented. Just because a study was written by academics it doesn't necessarily make it worthwhile or even accurate, and definitely not applicable to chickens living in different circumstances in most cases.

The aggegating of chicken keepers obsevations here on BYC gives a much broader view because of the range of chickens and keeping circumstances and in many case is far more usefull than something knocked up in a lab.

 

[dannichols525]

This bird sitting on eggs in the shower. She is way too valuable to be free range. I do have females sitting on eggs free range style.

 

[Perris]

It's worth bearing in mind that "studies" are usually just a group or individual obseving chickens in a controlled environment and formally presented.

and the chicken ones are often done by people working for the poultry or the feed industry with very young birds for a very short time.

That's partly why I've gone over to reading in ornithology; it's based on wild birds living free, so natural behaviours. And while there are huge differences between avian species - there are 236 separate families of birds - there are lots of similarities too, and I find it more useful to think with than I do the typical poultry research paper.

 

[TOMTE]

and the chicken ones are often done by people working for the poultry or the feed industry with very young birds for a very short time.

That's partly why I've gone over to reading in ornithology; it's based on wild birds living free, so natural behaviours. And while there are huge differences between avian species - there are 236 separate families of birds - there are lots of similarities too, and I find it more useful to think with than I do the typical poultry research paper.

Galliform evolution might be helpful to read about, in that case!

 

[Skyeknight]

and the chicken ones are often done by people working for the poultry or the feed industry with very young birds for a very short time.

That's partly why I've gone over to reading in ornithology; it's based on wild birds living free, so natural behaviours. And while there are huge differences between avian species - there are 236 separate families of birds - there are lots of similarities too, and I find it more useful to think with than I do the typical poultry research paper.

I completely agree with this. It's also what I do. A lot of it comes down to: Is this behaviour something that would help the individual pass on their genetics or survive?