Need advice on feeds

[KatsHerd]

Hi,
To start with I'm Australian, so a lot of the brands I see recommended on here we don't have access too.
The main brands I can get local to me are Barastoc, Laucke Mills & another brand I won't use - we've lost countless birds due to insufficient vitamins with their feeds.
HOWEVER we breed birds, so we have a rooster in each of our cages. I understand people recommend an all flock feed, but the only all flock feed I can find has 3.8% of calcium per kg of feed. I'm assuming this is far too much for roosters? The feed I WANT to use for my hens contains 4%, but has a full pre & probiotic mix, along with some added goodness that I want. Is there anything I can do here to keep my roosters healthy, though?

 

[Perris]

Hi,
To start with I'm Australian, so a lot of the brands I see recommended on here we don't have access too.
The main brands I can get local to me are Barastoc, Laucke Mills & another brand I won't use - we've lost countless birds due to insufficient vitamins with their feeds.
HOWEVER we breed birds, so we have a rooster in each of our cages. I understand people recommend an all flock feed, but the only all flock feed I can find has 3.8% of calcium per kg of feed. I'm assuming this is far too much for roosters? The feed I WANT to use for my hens contains 4%, but has a full pre & probiotic mix, along with some added goodness that I want. Is there anything I can do here to keep my roosters healthy, though?

if you are breeding your birds, you want them on breeder rations. See e.g. https://www.gov.mb.ca/agriculture/livestock/poultry/poultry-rations-and-feeding-methods.html (I advise you to read the whole page at that link; this is just an excerpt to illustrate the point)

"RATIONS FOR BREEDING STOCK

A ration suitable for egg production, is not necessarily satisfactory for the breeding flock. To obtain high hatchability, the riboflavin content of the feed must be greatly increased. This is provided in milk, or specially prepared commercial breeder concentrates or balancers. Extra Vitamin D is required over the amount in laying rations. See Ration No. 1, 3 and 4 (page 29) for suggested amounts of milk, fish, oil, etc. Note that the daily feeding of clover or alfalfa leaves is recommended in all cases. Any change in feed must be made gradually. The flock should receive the breeder diet a full six weeks or two months prior to saving the first eggs for hatching."

 

[KatsHerd]

if you are breeding your birds, you want them on breeder rations. See e.g. https://www.gov.mb.ca/agriculture/livestock/poultry/poultry-rations-and-feeding-methods.html (I advise you to read the whole page at that link; this is just an excerpt to illustrate the point)

"RATIONS FOR BREEDING STOCK

A ration suitable for egg production, is not necessarily satisfactory for the breeding flock. To obtain high hatchability, the riboflavin content of the feed must be greatly increased. This is provided in milk, or specially prepared commercial breeder concentrates or balancers. Extra Vitamin D is required over the amount in laying rations. See Ration No. 1, 3 and 4 (page 29) for suggested amounts of milk, fish, oil, etc. Note that the daily feeding of clover or alfalfa leaves is recommended in all cases. Any change in feed must be made gradually. The flock should receive the breeder diet a full six weeks or two months prior to saving the first eggs for hatching."

Thank you! I will give that page a read- but just quickly, the Barastoc brand do make a poultry breeder. It's specifically made for hens though. 3.5% calcium. Is this safe for the roosters, though? If that's answered in the page you posted I do apologise.

 

[Perris]

It's specifically made for hens though. 3.5% calcium. Is this safe for the roosters, though?

if it was considered OK for roosters it would not have been labelled by the manufacturer as a feed specifically for hens; it would be called 'all flock' or somesuch.

 

[NanaK]

Can you get a chick or starter feed?

When I can't get all flock, I will purchase starter feed. It has the vitamins and protein content I like but without excess calcium. The brand I use also has probiotics. You can use this for the life of the hens and roosters.

Just make sure you offer oyster shell in a separate container for the layers.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

Thank you! I will give that page a read- but just quickly, the Barastoc brand do make a poultry breeder. It's specifically made for hens though. 3.5% calcium. Is this safe for the roosters, though? If that's answered in the page you posted I do apologise.

Over the long term, no.

Over the short term, damage is minimal and generally not observable. How long do you plan to keep your Roos for before rotating them out of "production"?

I feed my flock in ways I generally don't recommend for others, consequence of which that I accept an average 2.3% average calcium in my feed. By 18 months, when I butcher my roosters, I can find some signs of calcium build up, some of the time, on their internal organs. In a clinical setting, I'm sure I could find evidence of excess calcium every time - I'm speaking only of what I can see and feel.

3.5% calcium is 50% higher on average - I would expect there would be more evidence, and greater impact on your roosters as result. But if you are only keeping them for one or two breeding seasons before rotating them out, that could be an acceptable risk level for you.

Note that i do NOT use that same feed for my hatched chicks - that much calcium WILL have obvious consequence on their rate of growth, final size, and other health issues as well. In my flock, the transition to "adult" feed generally occurs at 8-10 weeks, and they free range acres besides, which helps further buffer their calcium intake.

Finally, calcium carbonate (the calcium form found in oyster shell, popular here in the US) is the most damaging kind. dicalcium phosphate and calcium diphoshate are more expensive (thus not as widely used here) but also less damaging to your Roosters. Both are more popular calcium sources in places with fewer oyster shells locally.

Hope that helps.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

and at least locally, feed intended for adult roosters in breeder flocks is often labelled "maintenance" - its low energy, low protein, designed to keep their bulk down.

 

[Perris]

and at least locally, feed intended for adult roosters in breeder flocks is often labelled "maintenance" - its low energy, low protein, designed to keep their bulk down.

I think you will find that is for broiler breeders only. Breeder rations for normal bird males are not concerned with the excess bulk that broilers carry.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

I think you will find that is for broiler breeders only. Breeder rations for normal bird males are not concerned with the excess bulk that broilers carry.

Could be. None of the "Maintenance" feed bags I've ever read have said anything about broiler flocks, but what I've read is an admittedly small sample size. Complicating expanding my sample size is the large number of game cock maintenance feeds, which are also low protein (12.5-14%) and normal (or close to normal) fat ranges (3.5-6%.)

 

[Ridgerunner]

Is there anything I can do here to keep my roosters healthy, though?

I agree with Stormcrow, calcium over time is the issue. The hens can handle the extra calcium, the roosters not so much if they are on a steady diet of it.

In most breeds the roosters are larger than the hens. I'm not sure how that works out in your breeds. I've seen one method to restrict the hens to eating only the hen food and the roosters to limit only to their specific food. Since the roosters are taller than the hens, hang feeders too high for the hens to reach and fill with rooster feed. To feed the hens have feeders lower down but use wire to partition off sections too small for the rooster's larger head to get through. The feed would have to be down low enough that they could not reach it without getting their head all the way through.

I have no idea what height is too high for your hens. I have no idea of the dimensions the hen's heads can safely get through but the rooster's heads cannot. It can easily be different for each breed, if it will work at all for yours.

A much easier way for me is to feed them all a low calcium feed with oyster shells on the side for the ones that need it for the eggshells.