Organic, soy-free chicken feed?

[BruceL]

To my fellow chicken 'farmers' in SW Missouri I have found organic soy-free feed but as you know it is very expensive. If we as a group order enough here is what we can do. Order twenty 50 pound bags. The total cost per bag would be $35.15 or 70₵ per pound. If anyone is interested let me know.

The feed I am talking about is that from Virginia (Countryside Organics). I am hoping to find 4 other families to go in on an order with me. This would mean we would each be committed to 4 bags at $35.15 or a total of $140.60 which sounds like a lot but this would be 200 pounds of food per family. As many of you are aware, there are some serious health risks associated with GMO corn, and 85% of the corn produced in this country is GMO. Also there are risks with soy.

Another way to think about this. Let's say you think you only need 2 bags. Find a friend that would buy 2 bags from you. Let me know if you are interested. FWIW I am SW Springfield.

 

[Soy Free LIfe]

Hello

I recently found a new source of Soy Free, Corn Free, Canola Free organic chicken feed in Phoenix Arizona. I am posting here in case someone near Phoenix might be looking for it. I know I was. The prices are lower than I have seen. Even $8 cheaper than Azure Standard feeds, which was the only Non Soy feed in Phoenix before this Wholesale Club.

Here is a link to their price page:
http://www.phoenixorganicfeed.com/prices.html

Scott B.

 

[GreenMountainEric]

So, Expelled Canola meal is bad now too?? hmm..... why is that? There will always be something I guess...

 

[Soy Free LIfe]

Hello Canola is one of the major ingredients which has infiltrated nearly the entire processed foods supply. Here is a list of most common GMO foods:

​

List of genetically modified foods:
It’s virtually impossible to provide a complete list of genetically modified food (GM food) in the United States because there aren’t any laws for genetically modified crops!
Some estimates say as many as 30,000 different products on grocery store shelves are "modified." That's largely because many processed foods contain soy. Half of North America's soy crop is genetically engineered!
Rapeseed - Resistance to certain pesticides and improved rapeseed cultivars to be free of erucic acid and glucosinolates. Gluconsinolates, which were found in rapeseed meal leftover from pressing, are toxic and had prevented the use of the meal in animal feed. In Canada, where "double-zero" rapeseed was developed, the crop was renamed "canola" (Canadian oil) to differentiate it from non-edible rapeseed.
Honey - Honey can be produced from GM crops. Some Canadian honey comes from bees collecting nectar from GM canola plants. This has shut down exports of Canadian honey to Europe.
Cotton - Resistant to certain pesticides - considered a food because the oil can be consumed. The introduction of genetically engineered cotton plants has had an unexpectedly effect on Chinese agriculture. The so-called Bt cotton plants that produce a chemical that kills the cotton bollworm have not only reduced the incidence of the pest in cotton fields, but also in neighboring fields of corn, soybeans, and other crops.
Rice - Genetically modified to contain high amounts of Vitamin A. Rice containing human genes is to be grown in the US. Rather than end up on dinner plates, the rice will make human proteins useful for treating infant diarrhoea in the developing world.
Soybean - Genetically modified to be resistant to herbicides - Soy foods including, soy beverages, tofu, soy oil, soy flour, lecithin. Other products may include breads, pastries, snack foods, baked products, fried products, edible oil products and special purpose foods.
Sugar cane - Made resistant to certain pesticides. A large percentage of sweeteners used in processed food actually comes from corn, not sugar cane or beets. Genetically modified sugar cane is regarded so badly by consumers at the present time that it could not be marketed successfully.
Tomatoes - Made for a longer shelf life and to prevent a substance that causes tomatoes to rot and degrade.
Corn - Resistant to certain pesticides - Corn oil, flour, sugar or syrup. May include snack foods, baked goods, fried foods, edible oil products, confectionery, special purpose foods, and soft drinks.
Sweet corn - genetically modified to produces its own insecticide. Officials from the US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) have said that thousands of tonnes of genetically engineered sweetcorn have made their way into the human food supply chain, even though the produce has been approved only for use in animal feed. Recently Monsanto, a biotechnology food producer, said that about half of the USA's sweetcorn acreage has been planted with genetically modified seed this year.
Canola - Canola oil. May include edible oil products, fried foods, and baked products, snack foods.
Potatoes - (Atlantic, Russett Burbank, Russet Norkatah, and Shepody) - May include snack foods, processed potato products and other processed foods containing potatoes.
Flax - More and more food products contain flax oil and seed because of their excellent nutritional properties. No genetically modified flax is currently grown. An herbicide-resistant GM flax was introduced in 2001, but was soon taken off the market because European importers refused to buy it.
Papaya - The first virus resistant papayas were commercially grown in Hawaii in 1999. Transgenic papayas now cover about one thousand hectares, or three quarters of the total Hawaiian papaya crop. Monsanto, donated technology to Tamil Nadu Agricultural University, Coimbatore, for developing a papaya resistant to the ringspot virus in India.
Squash - (yellow crookneck) - Some zucchini and yellow crookneck squash are also GM but they are not popular with farmers.
Red-hearted chicory - (radicchio) - Chicory (Cichorium intybus var. foliosum) is popular in some regions as a salad green, especially in France and Belgium. Scientists developed a genetically modified line of chicory containing a gene that makes it male sterile, simply facilitating the production of hybrid cultivars. Today there is no genetically modified chicory on the market.
Cotton seed oil - Cottonseed oil and linters. Products may include blended vegetable oils, fried foods, baked foods, snack foods, edible oil products, and smallgoods casings.
Tobacco -The company Vector has a GMO tobacco being sold under the brand of Quest

cigarettes in the U.S. It is engineered to produce low or no nicotine.
Meat - Meat and dairy products usually come from animals that have eaten GM feed.
Peas - Genetically modified (GM) peas created immune responses in mice, suggesting that they may also create serious allergic reactions in people. The peas had been inserted with a gene from kidney beans, which creates a protein that acts as a pesticide.
Vegetable Oil - Most generic vegetable oils and margarines used in restaurants and in processed foods in North America are made from soy, corn, canola, or cottonseed. Unless these oils specifically say "Non-GMO" or "Organic," it is probably genetically modified.
Sugarbeets - May include any processed foods containing sugar.
Dairy Products - About 22 percent of cows in the U.S. are injected with recombinant (genetically modified) bovine growth hormone (rbGH).
Vitamins - Vitamin C (ascorbic acid) is often made from corn, vitamin E is usually made from soy. Vitamins A, B2, B6, and B12 may be derived from GMOs as well as vitamin D and vitamin K may have "carriers" derived from GM corn sources, such as starch, glucose, and maltodextrin.
How can the public make informed decisions about genetically modified (GM) foods when there is so little information about its safety?


Citation: Disabled World News (2009-09-22) - Genetically modified foods information including list of GM foods with dna changes and pros and cons of GM food: http://www.disabled-world.com/fitness/gm-foods.php#ixzz2MEP6sMPh - See more at: http://www.disabled-world.com/fitness/gm-foods.php#sthash.LWHA11cZ.dpuf

Hopefully this list is useful.
www.phoenixorganicfeed.com​

 

[GreenMountainEric]

I guess I still don't understand why that should mean that an Organic, GMO-free, expelled canola meal, is a bad product.....

 

[Soy Free LIfe]

There is no definitive proof that organic canola is bad. However, since crops GMO crops for canola are at 88%, your organic canola although raised from organic seed and may be treated without RoundUp, is very likely to be contaminated with GM gene. This is simply because the wind blows. Here is a 3 minute piece on how GMO Canola is spreading:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=129010499

Although there is still no sicentific studies which prove GMO canola is bad. There are studies showing that the same gene in corn IS conclusively bad for us. It is bad for us even if you take the GMO seed of corn and raise it under organic conditions. That means, take GMO seed and do not use RoundUp, do not use any synthetic fertilizers or herbicides pesticides etc....as would be done for your Organic feed.

Here is a LINK to a study on GMO corn which identifies THE GENE in Corn is causing a problem as well as the RoundUp residue. The exact same gene has been spliced into canola. Here is the link to that study. If you want to go directly to the part of the study which talks about the effects of the GMO gene itself, queue the video to 8:30:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=129010499

Between these two links, I think it will be a decent answer to your questions. Unless you canola is grown in a green house sequestered from open air, you are most likely eating part GMO canola.

I'd like to know what you think about the above two links, I posted.

Thanks you
Scott B
www.phoenixorganicfeed.com

 

[GreenMountainEric]

There is no definitive proof that organic canola is bad. However, since crops GMO crops for canola are at 88%, your organic canola although raised from organic seed and may be treated without RoundUp, is very likely to be contaminated with GM gene. This is simply because the wind blows. Here is a 3 minute piece on how GMO Canola is spreading:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=129010499

Although there is still no sicentific studies which prove GMO canola is bad. There are studies showing that the same gene in corn IS conclusively bad for us. It is bad for us even if you take the GMO seed of corn and raise it under organic conditions. That means, take GMO seed and do not use RoundUp, do not use any synthetic fertilizers or herbicides pesticides etc....as would be done for your Organic feed.

Here is a LINK to a study on GMO corn which identifies THE GENE in Corn is causing a problem as well as the RoundUp residue. The exact same gene has been spliced into canola. Here is the link to that study. If you want to go directly to the part of the study which talks about the effects of the GMO gene itself, queue the video to 8:30:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=129010499

Between these two links, I think it will be a decent answer to your questions. Unless you canola is grown in a green house sequestered from open air, you are most likely eating part GMO canola.

I'd like to know what you think about the above two links, I posted.

Thanks you
Scott B
www.phoenixorganicfeed.com

So, basically, not any different, than any other grain that has a GMO counterpart..... If, however, the canola is grown on a 200 acre plot that is completely surrounded by Organic Corn, that sort of thing doesn't happen. Organic certifiers require producers to use setbacks, or off-species barriers, to prevent cross pollination. Maybe not a perfect system, but works fairly well.

I agree that we have potential for issues with GMO crossover, but that doesn't make Canola any worse than any other grain. We already have GMO peas that are getting cross pollinated by insects, and the same goes for Wheat and Barley. GMO Wheat and Barley are not allowed for food yet, but they are certainly being tested in feedstuffs. (Several hundred, large acreage trials over the last 10-12 years)

They have been genetically modifying fish for years as well. Considering that the waste fishmeal is not regulated for Organic use, (who knows why) you are more likely to get GMO fishmeal in a feed that has fishmeal in it. There is a reason why fishmeal was banned from Organic use for many years....... At least until the large corporations influenced a modified decision on that.

We may not have that genetically modified fish in our food yet (Pretty soon), but, where do you think all of the test material went?? Hmmm..... Any idea how many farm trials have been performed? It would scare you. But hey, thats what the FDA requires. At the same time, the FDA allows the use of that GMO test material (fishmeal) to be mixed and distributed with all of the other fishmeal that goes into the feed industry. And then the NOP allows the use of that material in Organic production.

Canola may be at high risk of cross pollination, but at least it has some regulation to the practices in which it is produced.....

 

[Soy Free LIfe]

Wow

I am not familiar with any fishmeal law changes in the law. I didn't know the history to which you are referring to. Can you direct me to a source for that history, so I can take a look. I am trying to be a pillar of knowledge in my community, so I try to research everything I hear that is relevant to our feed group. I believe organic fishmeal is the only way we are able to hit our 16% protein without Canola, Corn or Soy.

Does anyone have any suggestions on how I might be able to avoid fishmeal too, I would love to hear formulation ideas. My group has enough volume, that the supplier will do custom formulations for us, but I am not knowledgeable enough to suggest feed substitutes etc..

Thanks for the info.
Scott Brown
www.phoenixorganicfeed.com

 

[GreenMountainEric]

Wow

I am not familiar with any fishmeal law changes in the law. I didn't know the history to which you are referring to. Can you direct me to a source for that history, so I can take a look. I am trying to be a pillar of knowledge in my community, so I try to research everything I hear that is relevant to our feed group. I believe organic fishmeal is the only way we are able to hit our 16% protein without Canola, Corn or Soy.

Does anyone have any suggestions on how I might be able to avoid fishmeal too, I would love to hear formulation ideas. My group has enough volume, that the supplier will do custom formulations for us, but I am not knowledgeable enough to suggest feed substitutes etc..

Thanks for the info.
Scott Brown
www.phoenixorganicfeed.com

Hi Scott,

I am not sure if you can find publications for the old NOP rulings or not. In the early 90s the NOP disallowed fishmeal, because, originally we were not supposed to put animal protein byproducts in Organic grain mixes. A few years later, they changed their mind. In the early-mid 2000s, the NOP disallowed fishmeal once again. A few years later, the price of Organic protein products skyrocketed, and all of a sudden, the NOP wouldn't comment on the utilization of fishmeal in feed products. About a year later (2007 i believe), it was ok to use again. A lot of feed manufacturers still avoid using fishmeal. We are mostly worried that the ruling will change again. It always seems to be a topic of debate for organic certification. I know that my certification agency has a big problem with us using it in feed. We are still allowed, because, our certifier has to follow NOP guidelines. With that said, they do not like it.

The only other reason that we avoid fishmeal, is that, there is not a good stabilizer for it yet. That leaves us open to feed/food safety issues. Chances are slim, that there would be a problem. It is a little risky though.

As far as Organic approved protein sources go, no, there is not much way to avoid using at least one of those ingredients. I will give brief explanations of Organic Protein supplement choices that are available.

Field Peas- usually run between 16% and 22% protein. They are not very reliable for consistent protein. We usually use the lower average for formulating. Another problem with peas, is that, even though the "total crude protein" is 16-22%, the amino acid balance is way off for a typical chicken diet. As of this year, the NOP started regulating the use of Methionine supplements, which makes it even harder to develop a good diet with peas. With all of that said, Peas seem to work in a layer ration, if they are less than 20-25% of the mix.

Expelled Flax Meal- Probably one of the best choices out there, however, it can only be a maximum of 10% of the ration. Using more than 10% will turn your egg whites, brown. Expelled flax is usually 34-35% Protein.

Expelled Canola Meal - Also capped at no more than 10% of a ration. Nutrient composition is fairly close to flax meal. 35-36% protein. Fairly good amino acid balance for poultry. Shady history (as we know).

Sunflower Meal- Showed very low performance for production, and poor balance of amino acids. Also has palatability issues, and not for typical reasons..... Sunflower is almost like chocolate for chickens. They love it, however, they only want small amounts. Feeding very much sunflower meal, would be like us having chocolate and potatos for dinner.

Fishmeal- Very good amino acid balance, and very palatable. Usually 44-65% protein, depending on the type. High in heavy metals, and has a high potential for toxins. Because of this, it is always used in moderation, for chicken diets. Typically, less than 2.5% of the feed mix. In using 2.5% or less you- 1- minimize risk of spoilage 2- regulate the transfer of heavy metals, such as mercury, to safe levels.(They will directly transfer to the human consuming the product, if the chicken is getting more than their body can manage. It will go into the egg, not into the feces.) 3- Add enough methionine and lysine to balance a typical layer feed mix. Fishmeal works excellent as a protein supplement, and I do recommend it as an ingredient. It is, however, not a good idea to use very much of it.

Soy- As much as I hate to say, soy is the best performing protein supplement in poultry diets. It absolutely crushes the other ingredients for highest production performance, best digestibility, and lowest mortality (especially in meat bird diets). There is a reason that it is a staple ingredient in poultry diets. It is not because it is cheap. It is actually more expensive than using the alternatives. It is not because it is easier to grow, or that it growes better in the US. It is actually harder than most other options. It is because it works, and provides the best ratio of performance and cost. Unfortunately, as we know, it has potential health risks.



I know I may have scared you a little bit, about fishmeal, with the statement above. However, there are scary facts about every feed ingredient out there. It is up to us, to balance the risk. Hopefully, we will see more Organic protein choices in the next few years. (maybe even see some fishmeal from an Organic fish raising operation, instead of getting any old fishmeal, from any fish processing operation)

 

[Soy Free LIfe]

Great information!!! Thank you so much for sharing!

My supplier who offers our group both a canola ration, and fishmeal ration. He is trying to please all people and seems able except those trying to pure GMO free people. I do know he preserves his fishmeal with organic rosemary which allows him to obtain USDA organic certification. I tried it, but felt the fishmeal seemed to cause my egg production to drop slightly (obviously there are other factors too), so I personally have opted back on the organic canola.

Of all the ingredients you just mentioned above, flax stands out. I know there is flax in all of our rations, but I do not know the percentage. When you say brown yolks, are there degrees of brown-ness as one increase the flax in the ration? A little brown sounds exotic, but it might actually make me recoil when I see it.

On a side note. I was able to meet with Percy Schmeizer yesterday, who is on a anti-GMO tour in Arizona right now. He mentioned, GMO flax is being found in the US. Supposedly Monsanto developed GMO flax, but never grew it outside of a lab. Therefore theoretically it should be impossible for contamination to exist, but it is happening. I assume it is the RoundUp Ready gene they are finding in the flax, since it is identifiable. I am sure the contamination isn't as prolific as corn, soy or canola, but it might eventually be....

Thank you again for the info, I will ask my supplier how much flax we have and if it would be possible to increase it a little.
Scott B.
www.phoenixorganicfeed.com