Paint genetics with silkies

[Mburnie]

I know some people don’t believe that the paint gene can be carried, but I have to disagree with that due to my own experiment of taking black (splits) and black hens (splits) that were produced from my paint pen and they still throw paint babies about 25% of the time.
Anyway so my question is, what will happen if I take a black rooster split from a paint, and breed him to what I assume is a recessive white hen?
I do not know her lineage, she was given to me by a friend who hatched her from a high quality breeders hatching eggs. She’s beautiful and to the show standards. I believe she could improve my line, however I’m hoping they could still produce paint babies. What do you all think?

I attached a picture of my pretty boy that I am talking bout who I currently have in my paint pen.

 

[The Moonshiner]

What are you calling "paints"? What genetics?
What you're describing sounds like the mottled gene.
Also don't know where you're from but here paints are blacks with one dominate white gene. Paints don't produce "splits". Splits are birds that carry one recessive gene so it's sight unseen.
Paints deal with dominate white which isn't recessive and shows even with one copy.
There is no actual "paint" gene and what your describing doesn't sound like paint breeding as I know it.
Confusing post.

 

[Willawong Hill]

I think Silkies can be split for paint, but it doesn't seem to work the same as your usual recessive gene. I think of it like "leakage" in that the bird has to be homonzygous for the leaky gene for paint to show up, and it can only show up on a black/dominant white background (like blue only shows up on a black background).

This only works with dominant white though, so unless your white of unknown breeding happens to be a dominant white split for paint, it won't work. If she is just a recessive white as you think it most likely then i imagine most chicks will be black,though some will be split for paint, you won't know which ones unless you test breed them back to a paint.

 

[The Moonshiner]

Paints are a real simple pattern but there is no splits in paint breeding. There's not that is recessive and/or can hide.
Paints usually refer to black and white birds but you can make paints with any black dilute such as blue or chocolate.
They're just a black bird with one copy of dominate white. One copy will not cover all the black so that's how paints are made.
Dominate white is dominate so one copy will show. There's no black split paints because black can't hide the white.
In paint breeding there's paints = one copy DW
Blacks = no copy of DW
Whites = two copies of DW.

 

[Willawong Hill]

Oh that's odd as i've been seeing that chart and hearing the term split with paints here, I wonder if it's different in Australia, but you'd have to think it's the same gene?
This page also talks about splits in paints: https://vjppoultry.com/tag/paint-silkie-breeding-chart/ I have seen paint silkie breeders over here have black with leakage in their paint pens to help with spot size. I did know you could make blue paints, and chocolate and probably lavender makes sense but don't think it shows on any of the buff or other colours?

 

[Willawong Hill]

I think i've got myself really confused now. If blacks just have two copies of black and dominant white two copies of DW then shouldn't all black x dominant white chicks be paint as they will inherit one black and one white? Most places i've seen say they get a mix of black and paint which shouldn't happen if there are no splits. However, i've not actually bred any myself (only have baby chicks) so perhaps someone who's done this breeding can let me know. Splits in paints are obviously a common theory as this farm also has it on their website: https://mranimalfarm.com/chickens/paint-silkies/

 

[The Moonshiner]

Paints here do breed 100% paint if you breed a black to white.
I have no idea what your paints or the OPs paints are.
From what they described and with you talking about blacks being splits it really sounds like you'll are breeding a type of mottled birds.
Something like exchequers. Which in my opinion would be a smarter way to go then using DW.
Does you'll paint pens produce solid white birds? Do you know you'll use DW?

 

[Willawong Hill]

I am really interested in doing some testing now, sadly I don't have any dominant white or paint chicks yet. The paint breeder I have been talking to over here has what look like the same sort of paints as you have- the chicks being white down with black spots as I've seen on here, growing up with blobs of black rather than mottled or exchequers. She said in her pen paint x paint does not give 100% paint as you'd expect if it was similar to mottle- gives paint, white and black. However, she also mentioned that white x black also gives her paint, black and white rather than 100% paint. She also said two black splits give 75% black with silver leakage and 25% paint which does sound more like a recessive gene. In her opinion the paint chart above is correct for what she sees. I wonder if we have some recessive white mixed in with out dominant whites in paint over here? Thanks for giving me heaps to think about Moonshiner, I will have to try to talk to more paint breeders now.

Sorry to hijack your thread Mburnie. Please do some test breeding and let us know what happens!

 

[Mburnie]

Can somebody please just answer this one question: can I take a paint rooster and breed it to a recessive white hen and get paints?

 

[The Moonshiner]

Hard to give an answer to your question without understanding exactly what your "paint" rooster is genetically.
With your description of how your paints breed and what the results are I would have to say no that pair wouldn't produce paints.
But again that's just trying to piece together what your rooster is.