Predators that don't fear people

[jjjennejjj]

I feel like the Rodney Dangerfield of wannabe homesteaders. I get no respect from the wildlife. Predators do not fear me.

I generally keep 50-80 chickens. I started off practical with dual purposed breeds, added breeds in to be able to have a rainbow of egg colors, then added rare breeds for beauty. I love the roosters the most and tend to keep 8-10 at a time with the intent to breed my own in the spring. I keep way more hens than I need just so that my roosters are happy and don't fight. Several of them even sleep together cuddled with a few hens around them. Unfortunately, the roosters are the first to be taken by predators because they defend the flock.

I have a very large coop and run that can be sectioned off, but in general the partition doors stay open and the flock roosts close together, but in 3-5 different "packs" at night. The coop and runs are designed for them to have plenty of space, and is predator-proof, covered by 1/2 hardware cloth floor to ceiling, overhead and underneath the foot of earth and deep bedding, and 4 months out of the year I run industrial fans to try to keep them cool.

However, I have found that ample free ranging time each day keeps them healthiest. Before I started giving them access to the pasture and woods around them, I had repeated bouts of random illness, chicken plagues, and Texas heat strokes that would wipe out 1/3 of the flock over a couple months.

When they free range, they are happy and robust. I get way better egg production, and I enjoy the seeing them graze and explore. Months go by and everything is fine, but then predators strike and I lose a bunch over a series of attacks in just couple weeks.

We have 4 livestock guardian dogs, trail cams, motion detector floodlights, and have never had issues at night. So it is in broad daylight that these attacks occur! And what is worse is it often happens right in front of me.

We have many red tailed hawks in our area. They perch in trees around our pasture. I put c.d's and silver swirly things around the chicken area and there are "hiding spots" and brush for cover. But the worst I have seen was one inside my barn. I had a sick hen in a dog cage so that I could tend to it, and the hawk reached through and pulled the cage off the table and flew away completely ripping my poor hen's wing off. I walked in right as it flew out the overhead door.

I have watched a red fox quietly scurry away with a hen in its mouth. I have been surrounded by pandemonium as a pack of coyotes descended on my flock from what seemed like every direction. My 2 dogs were chasing them around, but were way outnumbered. (That's why I got 2 more LGDs.) I once had a lone coyote carrying a rooster in its mouth walk past me as I was cleaning out a horse trough and it didn't even run when I yelled at it. It stopped in its tracks and just looked at me like I was crazy then happily trotted back towards the creek.

On days that I lost 4-9 birds without witnessing it, I didn't know if it was hawks, coyotes, or wild pigs- all of which live on our property. We have 85 acres but neighborhoods were just built on our back fence and several very large developments have cleared out mass amounts of nearby land. It feels like our mostly uncleared land is a wildlife refuge.

Our neighbor swears he counted 12 coyote dens along the creek that separates us when he was searching for his cattle that got loose.

And just yesterday, around 12:15 in the afternoon, a bobcat quietly pounced on a splash wyandotte minutes after I opened their coop door. A rooster intervened and its alarm brought the dogs running. I was literally 10 feet away filling up a waterer. I turned around. Feathers and birds were swirling in the air and then I saw its leopard like spots and nub tail right as it ducked into the brush. I sprayed the hose at it and screamed and was happy it got away empty handed, but surely not for long, right?

I haven't wanted to set coyote traps or get a donkey because we have 4 dogs, and 2 torment the horses by chasing them, and I don't want them injured or killed. I am a scatter-brained homeschooling mom that can't keep up with her phone or keys and am a terrible shot, so I definitely don't want to walk around the ranch carrying a gun.

What are my options? Are there people who will come hunt these animals? Is it safe to shoot them with so many nearby neighborhoods? Will animal control do anything? But mostly, WHY ARE THESE WILD ANIMALS SO UNABASHEDLY UNAFRAID OF ME???? Is it dangerous for my kids to play outside??? I guess I have unrealistic expectations that the wildlife would be be content with all the land we left uncleared. Does all the wildlife need to be eradicated for us to have our little farm with it's delicious, large variety of chicken buffet.?

I insist on free ranging; it's better for them and doing the math, I lose fewer to predators than I do disease. So coop/run only is not an option. I am not safely able to shoot them myself on the fly, but I am interested in whether any chicken owners successfully track to kill or have other methods of deterring them.

 

[nuthatched]

Are there people who will come hunt these animals?

Yes, you just need to find them. Predator eradication is legal most places to protect your kids and property.

Is it safe to shoot them with so many nearby neighborhoods?

How big of a property? How close are your neighbors?

Will animal control do anything?

Likely not.

But mostly, WHY ARE THESE WILD ANIMALS SO UNABASHEDLY UNAFRAID OF ME????

Because they're used to people and that's not a good thing, they associate people with easy food now and you're the 'waitress' at the EZ pickin's chicken buffet.

Is it dangerous for my kids to play outside???

I would be hesitant to do so if they aren't afraid of people. Attacks are rare but their mindset is heading that direction.

I guess I have unrealistic expectations that the wildlife would be be content with all the land we left uncleared.

Unfortunately, very much yes. Why stay in the woods eating stringy bunnies if there's fat, juicy chickens around the corner?

Does all the wildlife need to be eradicated for us to have our little farm...

Unfortunately, that's impossible. They'll be replaced by other predators moving in to the territory as fast as you can shoot them... to keep free ranging with your predator load is a bit unrealistic, especially since your predators *may* pose a threat to your kids. Your birds are more susceptible to Avian disease by free ranging, actually.

Frankly, you may not have much of a choice when it comes to building a large, robust run to protect your flock. Even tall fences and coyote rollers will help.
What you can do is build high fences with coyote rollers. Tenax elk fence is what I use, it's cheap, tall and easy to fence in wooded areas.
Step one is fencing, step two is lowering the current predator population, the new population will learn that your birds aren't easy dinner and move along. Animals go wherever there's food, as long as you provide easy meals, you'll have a high predators count.
I'm sorry I can't give you positive advice on what you'd prefer to do with your birds but it really boils down to either do something to permanently protect them (and your kids) or live with it.

 

[Red Mangrove]

I would recommend raising tougher chicken breeds and making sure that they have plenty of places to hide from predators. I have a large fox den on my land and they attempt to eat my chickens maybe twice a month, but I haven't seen them catch anything in years. Foxes aren't fast enough to catch American Game

As for hawks, from what I've seen even a two foot shrub will completely foil a hawk attack. It's giant empty fields that get chickens killed by birds of prey. Remember that their ancestors were primarily forest animals

 

[Penpal]

As to donkeys, they hate dogs. I used to have two jennets. They will leave the family dogs alone as long as you keep the dogs away for a bit, then introduce them by having the dogs keep a respectful distance and sit. Sitting is more submissive than standing. Lying down is more submissive than sitting (which is why your dog might not sit at your command in certain situations). I am sure anyone who sells you donkeys will walk you through having donkeys with dogs.

Your big dogs might take to chasing a donkey - - once. Donkeys defend themselves.

I don't know how good they would protect the chickens from hawks. Hawks are quite smaller than coyotes.

Also, coyotes are considered a nuisance and threat to agriculture. Contact your local authority and find out if you can kill them.

 

[SamLockwood]

Hawks and bobcats are brazen hunters: I've had hawks swoop in while I've been in the yard, and some people have even had chickens killed by them right next to them.

Last year I had a bobcat take a chicken not 20 yards from where I was standing.

I've got mixed flock of (currently) 34 chickens and guinea fowl that I free-range on about 5 of my 16 acres. Here's some random thoughts I have on the subject of predators in general:

1) I've had great luck so far with the combination of roosters and guinea fowl. I only lost one pullet in November of 2022 to a hawk attack. That was when most of the flock was 13 weeks old and I had no roosters. Since then I've lost count of how many times they've mobbed birds of prey and run them off.

2) I've had good luck keeping the coyotes at bay with a 5' high 2x4 wire fence mounted on T-posts. I added some wire to the gate as well (an 8'x3' chain-link gate). I mainly got it to keep the guineas from wandering into the swamp on my property, neighbor's yards, and the last straw being the cul-de-sac of the nearest public road. However, it does seem to keep the coyotes away. I don't think it's sturdy enough to climb and the guineas raise holy hell when they try to dig under it during the day and to date that's kept them at bay.

I did lose 2 guineas to a coyote last spring when a tree fell and took out about 8 feet of fence. Since then I do a perimeter check every week and after any weather with high winds.

3) One way I control predators on my property is I also have a lot of deer that cross it or visit it to water (the property is bordered or cris-crossed by about 4 to 5 creeks). So I let a local hunter or two in during deer season. The two primary conditions are A) The bring me a deer and B) they come in from time to time to keep the predators under control.

4) Check out your local laws about using firearms, hunting nuisance animals, etc. Where I live you're legal shooting a gun for any reason on your own property provided you don't do it within 200' of someone else's house (or otherwise occupied building) or within 400' of a public road. Also look up what the laws are with nuisance animals in your local area: hawks are protected everywhere, coyotes are protected nowhere. Bobcats and foxes may or may not be protected, and there may or may not be exceptions to that if they're attacking your livestock.

5) Standing guard with a gun over your flock is an exercise in futility. Even if you're an excellent shot, bobcats and coyotes can run 30 mph and you're unlikely to hit them. Smaller predators are, well, small. The only thing I can reliably hit on the run is an opossum, because they're so slow. You have much better luck getting them from ambush. Set up a blind or even shoot from a barn or house window, and have your "kill zone" set up so that you're either firing downward or you have a back-stop. Use shotguns or lower power rifles or pistol caliber carbines with hollow points or smaller shot, that way richochets and over-penetration are much less likely.

6) If you're concerned about trapping due to your pets or others, I've had decent success with using live-traps and then dispatching the predator in the trap. If you catch the wrong animal you simply let it out. My mom's idiot cat got herself caught 3 times to date when I've been eradicating raccoons. Trap & dispatch is how I've gotten rid of most of my smaller predators.

7) Bobcats are a royal pain to deal with. I lost 4 chickens to one last year (it tried for a guiena but didn't succeed beyond yanking most of the feathers off its back). From what I could tell it was using nearby trees to rapidly hop in and out of the fenced area and its specialty was picking off lone chickens. I spent three weeks hunting the little bastard off and on. I even set up an ambush baited with a live chicken to no avail. I did find its lair, and heard it a couple of times, but never laid eyes on it. A few days after I found the den I got one last shot of it on a trail camera with a squirrel in its mouth and I haven't seen it a sign of it since April.

8) While it's true that you never can eradicate predators, if you're able to knock their numbers down on a regular basis that makes natural prey like rabbits, squirrels, etc more plentiful. If you combine a predator control program with taking reasonable efforts to make your flock safe (solid fencing) you might reduce or eliminate your daylight raiding problem. It's not so much that you're going to make your flock "predator proof" (that's impossible with free-ranging), you're trying to set up a situation where your flock isn't such an easy meal for them and they have ample natural prey in the area.

A big help to me is that in addition to the deer there's innumerable squirrels, rabbits, and wild turkeys in the area that aren't behind a fence, aren't locked up at night, and don't have humans with guns protecting them.

9) In my experience hanging shiny objects or getting decoys (like fake owls) only works for a very short time. It keeps the predators at bay initially because it's something new, but once they figure out it's not going to come after them they'll learn to just ignore it.

10) Regardless of your long-term free-ranging ambitions, for the short term you're going to have lock your birds in a secure area until you get things under some semblance of control. When I had the bobcat problem I ended up keeping the flock locked up for a week while I searched for its lair. One night during this time it came on my back deck (I found its scat the following morning) and it even took two wild birds inside the fenced area while it was around. One was in the back yard next to the coop. When I did start letting the flock out I staggered the release time: some days it was the usual 90 minutes after dawn, other days it was an hour before dusk, and most others it was some time in between. This did seem to throw the 'cat off: I lost no more birds before it wandered, was driven off, or somebody or something else killed it.

11) A big problem you're having with your flock is it's getting decimated too quickly. Even if you switch your flock to game-hens or guineas, instinct is only going to help them so much. The bulk of my flock is now 16 months old, and I've noticed they've learned the various danger-calls of the bluejays, crows, and squirrels that live on my property. Depending on the call I've seen my flock run for cover, take an alert posture, or silently move to another part of the property. If integrate chicks early enough the adults will pass this knowledge on to the youngsters and your flock will be more resilient.

 

[itsasmallfarm]

sorry to hear about your loss of birds.

i would check out with your local DNR on how to deal with animals if neighbors are too close to worry about shooting. also check the legality of dispatching critters, some may be protected or have special rules. (for example where i live we can shoot black bears with in 1 KM of my bee hives)

 

[jjjennejjj]

sorry to hear about your loss of birds.

i would check out with your local DNR on how to deal with animals if neighbors are too close to worry about shooting. also check the legality of dispatching critters, some may be protected or have special rules. (for example where i live we can shoot black bears with in 1 KM of my bee hives)

Oh my gosh, I am sooooo glad we don't have bears here! That must certainly be a challenge.

 

[jjjennejjj]

Hawks and bobcats are brazen hunters: I've had hawks swoop in while I've been in the yard, and some people have even had chickens killed by them right next to them.

Last year I had a bobcat take a chicken not 20 yards from where I was standing.

I've got mixed flock of (currently) 34 chickens and guinea fowl that I free-range on about 5 of my 16 acres. Here's some random thoughts I have on the subject of predators in general:

1) I've had great luck so far with the combination of roosters and guinea fowl. I only lost one pullet in November of 2022 to a hawk attack. That was when most of the flock was 13 weeks old and I had no roosters. Since then I've lost count of how many times they've mobbed birds of prey and run them off.

2) I've had good luck keeping the coyotes at bay with a 5' high 2x4 wire fence mounted on T-posts. I added some wire to the gate as well (an 8'x3' chain-link gate). I mainly got it to keep the guineas from wandering into the swamp on my property, neighbor's yards, and the last straw being the cul-de-sac of the nearest public road. However, it does seem to keep the coyotes away. I don't think it's sturdy enough to climb and the guineas raise holy hell when they try to dig under it during the day and to date that's kept them at bay.

I did lose 2 guineas to a coyote last spring when a tree fell and took out about 8 feet of fence. Since then I do a perimeter check every week and after any weather with high winds.

3) One way I control predators on my property is I also have a lot of deer that cross it or visit it to water (the property is bordered or cris-crossed by about 4 to 5 creeks). So I let a local hunter or two in during deer season. The two primary conditions are A) The bring me a deer and B) they come in from time to time to keep the predators under control.

4) Check out your local laws about using firearms, hunting nuisance animals, etc. Where I live you're legal shooting a gun for any reason on your own property provided you don't do it within 200' of someone else's house (or otherwise occupied building) or within 400' of a public road. Also look up what the laws are with nuisance animals in your local area: hawks are protected everywhere, coyotes are protected nowhere. Bobcats and foxes may or may not be protected, and there may or may not be exceptions to that if they're attacking your livestock.

5) Standing guard with a gun over your flock is an exercise in futility. Even if you're an excellent shot, bobcats and coyotes can run 30 mph and you're unlikely to hit them. Smaller predators are, well, small. The only thing I can reliably hit on the run is an opossum, because they're so slow. You have much better luck getting them from ambush. Set up a blind or even shoot from a barn or house window, and have your "kill zone" set up so that you're either firing downward or you have a back-stop. Use shotguns or lower power rifles or pistol caliber carbines with hollow points or smaller shot, that way richochets and over-penetration are much less likely.

6) If you're concerned about trapping due to your pets or others, I've had decent success with using live-traps and then dispatching the predator in the trap. If you catch the wrong animal you simply let it out. My mom's idiot cat got herself caught 3 times to date when I've been eradicating raccoons. Trap & dispatch is how I've gotten rid of most of my smaller predators.

7) Bobcats are a royal pain to deal with. I lost 4 chickens to one last year (it tried for a guiena but didn't succeed beyond yanking most of the feathers off its back). From what I could tell it was using nearby trees to rapidly hop in and out of the fenced area and its specialty was picking off lone chickens. I spent three weeks hunting the little bastard off and on. I even set up an ambush baited with a live chicken to no avail. I did find its lair, and heard it a couple of times, but never laid eyes on it. A few days after I found the den I got one last shot of it on a trail camera with a squirrel in its mouth and I haven't seen it a sign of it since April.

8) While it's true that you never can eradicate predators, if you're able to knock their numbers down on a regular basis that makes natural prey like rabbits, squirrels, etc more plentiful. If you combine a predator control program with taking reasonable efforts to make your flock safe (solid fencing) you might reduce or eliminate your daylight raiding problem. It's not so much that you're going to make your flock "predator proof" (that's impossible with free-ranging), you're trying to set up a situation where your flock isn't such an easy meal for them and they have ample natural prey in the area.

A big help to me is that in addition to the deer there's innumerable squirrels, rabbits, and wild turkeys in the area that aren't behind a fence, aren't locked up at night, and don't have humans with guns protecting them.

9) In my experience hanging shiny objects or getting decoys (like fake owls) only works for a very short time. It keeps the predators at bay initially because it's something new, but once they figure out it's not going to come after them they'll learn to just ignore it.

10) Regardless of your long-term free-ranging ambitions, for the short term you're going to have lock your birds in a secure area until you get things under some semblance of control. When I had the bobcat problem I ended up keeping the flock locked up for a week while I searched for its lair. One night during this time it came on my back deck (I found its scat the following morning) and it even took two wild birds inside the fenced area while it was around. One was in the back yard next to the coop. When I did start letting the flock out I staggered the release time: some days it was the usual 90 minutes after dawn, other days it was an hour before dusk, and most others it was some time in between. This did seem to throw the 'cat off: I lost no more birds before it wandered, was driven off, or somebody or something else killed it.

11) A big problem you're having with your flock is it's getting decimated too quickly. Even if you switch your flock to game-hens or guineas, instinct is only going to help them so much. The bulk of my flock is now 16 months old, and I've noticed they've learned the various danger-calls of the bluejays, crows, and squirrels that live on my property. Depending on the call I've seen my flock run for cover, take an alert posture, or silently move to another part of the property. If integrate chicks early enough the adults will pass this knowledge on to the youngsters and your flock will be more resilient.

 

[jjjennejjj]

This is really helpful. Thank you for all yall's advice.

I invited a few college kids to hunt this weekend and whenever they want. Early February, my brother and his wife are going to help me set coyote snares near their dens which is outside of my dogs electric boundary.

My predator attacks I described have been over the past 2-3 years and they seem to be worst in spring and summer. I have lost 5 times as many to heat and disease than I have to predators. It seems weird, but the more they free range and the fewer interventions I have made, like quarantining, vaccinating and giving antibiotics when sick, the stronger the flock has gotten.

I think the 2 new dogs have helped a lot, at least with the coyotes. I was afraid they might have actually attacked one of the chickens. I found them sitting with it between them, feathers all around, and its poor back skinned open, but now I think it might have been the bobcat since I saw it just a few days later. The dogs probably scared it off, or took the chicken from it.

I'm going to burn the thicket/ brush along the backside of the chicken area so that predators are more exposed, get guineas, and make a rooster tractor for grow outs, instead of culling as many as I do in the spring, that way I have breeding back-ups. I know I can't free range and expect no losses, but I know I can do better. I thought chickens were going to be so easy. I refuse to move on to my planned additions of meat rabbits, a milk cow, and sheep until I can master a vegetable garden and chickens.

Thanks again for the help.

 

[jjjennejjj]

This is really helpful. Thank you for all yall's advice.

I invited a few college kids to hunt this weekend and whenever they want. Early February, my brother and his wife are going to help me set coyote snares near their dens which is outside of my dogs electric boundary.

My predator attacks I described have been over the past 2-3 years and they seem to be worst in spring and summer. I have lost 5 times as many to heat and disease than I have to predators. It seems weird, but the more they free range and the fewer interventions I have made, like quarantining, vaccinating and giving antibiotics when sick, the stronger the flock has gotten.

I think the 2 new dogs have helped a lot, at least with the coyotes. I was afraid they might have actually attacked one of the chickens. I found them sitting with it between them, feathers all around, and its poor back skinned open, but now I think it might have been the bobcat since I saw it just a few days later. The dogs probably scared it off, or took the chicken from it.

I'm going to burn the thicket/ brush along the backside of the chicken area so that predators are more exposed, get guineas, and make a rooster tractor for grow outs, instead of culling as many as I do in the spring, that way I have breeding back-ups. I know I can't free range and expect no losses, but I know I can do better. I thought chickens were going to be so easy. I refuse to move on to my planned additions of meat rabbits, a milk cow, and sheep until I can master a vegetable garden and chickens.

Thanks again for the help.

Oh and I'm going to set live traps near the chicken area and can just release my cats if need be.