Run roof construction help!

[Emak2323]

So I have attempted to frame out the 10x24' long run for the chickens. I have 4x4 PT posts dug down 2+ feet, 8' 2x4's toenail connected in between the 4x4 posts. I will be adding vertical 2x4's (6' and in some parts longer due to the slope of the land) at 4' on the 8' 2x4s. I suppose I will have to toenail connect those as well so the hardware cloth can be flush (unless someone has a better idea). I will be using screws and washers to attach the hardware cloth.

For the roof, my original plan was to lay the 2x4x10's flat across the width (pics 2&3) and screw them into the 4x4 posts or 2x4 "studs" as I go. I also plan to have hardware cloth all across the top of the run. Then I was going to possibly staple down plastic to keep the rain and snow out. The pitch of the roof front to back is about 4". HOWEVER, then my neighbor came over and told me it will break this way and I need to have them vertically (pics 4&5). If I do have to do this, how would I connect them? I suppose I would run the hardware cloth underneath so I won't have the gap at the top. This is my first time building something like this and this whole building it alone thing is getting old! I'd really appreciate some input. Thank you in advance!

Oh, and if anyone has any great EASY!! door ideas, I'm all ears

(horizontal plan)
(vertical option?)

 

[aart]

Vertical option is definitely the strongest way for the span.
But I'm concerned with how the circled joint is attached?

Then I was going to possibly staple down plastic to keep the rain and snow out.

Also need to think about the load, if you get snow you may need more than tarps over 2x4 rafters. Might need 2x6 rafters and solid sheathing.
Tagging @DobieLover for structural advice.

@Emak2323
Where in this world are you located?
Climate, and time of year, is almost always a factor.
Please add your general geographical location to your profile.
It's easy to do, and then it's always there!

 

[Emak2323]

Thank you! I will add my location, but I am in Mass.

The circled joint is attached with 3&1/2inch screws toenailed in (2 on the bottom and 2 on the top). I have learned subsequently I should have overlapped it.

Do you think I should switch out the 2x4x10s for 2x6x10s , installed vertically? I was going to put some strapping over the plastic and keep the snow off as often as possible during storms.

 

[mowin]

Snow load is going to be your issue. That's why the rafters need to be standing on end. 2x6 will definitely be stronger.

As far as toenailing the 2x4 to the uprights, I would have notched the 4x4 so the 2x4 fit flush. But I'd change them to 2x6 to match the 2x6 rafters.
Use joist hangers to attach the 2x6 rafters to the upper horizontal 2x6 (after you change them from the 2x4)

 

[aart]

The circled joint is attached with 3&1/2inch screws toenailed in (2 on the bottom and 2 on the top). I have learned subsequently I should have overlapped it.

You could add some cleats or angle braces under the horizontal.
...or change them out as suggested by mowin above.

Do you think I should switch out the 2x4x10s for 2x6x10s , installed vertically? I was going to put some strapping over the plastic and keep the snow off as often as possible during storms.

I would not use plastic sheeting or tarps at all. I would add solid roofing(metal or plastic) appropriately supported by rafter spacing and/or purlins.
It would be really hard to clear snow off a roof of that size and height.
Cry now or cry later.

 

[Emak2323]

Yes you are right - rather do it right-ish the first time around. Thank you for your input. I’ll get some bracing for under the horizontals, switch to 2x6’s and add then in every 2 feet. For now I am going to cover it with hardware cloth only but I may add plastic roofing before winter.

as much as I hate to make the changes, better now than later as you say! Really appreciate it

 

[DobieLover]

Yes you are right - rather do it right-ish the first time around. Thank you for your input. I’ll get some bracing for under the horizontals, switch to 2x6’s and add then in every 2 feet. For now I am going to cover it with hardware cloth only but I may add plastic roofing before winter.

as much as I hate to make the changes, better now than later as you say! Really appreciate it

You've already cut the 2x4's and toe screwed them in for the upper support so unless you go back and get longer members for the top "beam" you should add the cleats underneath and lag screw them into the posts. I would also double them up. A 2x4 isn't going to support much weight the way you have this framed.
You definitely cannot go with a plate style rafter. You have to turn them so they can support load. And a 2x4 isn't going to cut it on a 10' span. You are going to need to bump up to 2x6 rafters.

Below is the way it should have been framed to support a snow load.
This structure is 28'x12' with a 12/2.5 pitch for a shingled roof.
4x4 posts set on concrete foots, 8' OC. I toe screwed 2x4s to the bottom spans between the posts for HC attachment and to support the vertical 2x4s that were installed for the HC strips.
I used doubled up 2x6s for the beams front and back and they sit ON TOP of the posts in the caps.
The 2x6 rafters were installed 24" OC with a birds mouth notch over both beams to bear full weight over the surface of the beam. Everything is enclosed in HC.

With such a shallow pitch on your 10' span, I wouldn't expect a good drainage. Tarps will be a big mess and the weight of the snow over the 2 ft span between your rafters will rip the hardware cloth down eventually.
I would suggest you build a 20" knee wall on the front wall so you would end up with a 12/2 pitch which will drain better. You could then install purlins across the rafters and put up polycarbonate roofing. I'd be concerned about using anything heavier than polycarb on that framing. You want to keep the dead load as low as you can.
Increasing the pitch might let you get away with HC with a very HD tarp over the top. Don't expect the tarp to last more than one season, two if you're very lucky.
Good luck with your project!

 

[Emak2323]

Wow - first of all, I'm so impressed with your coop and your run! It's amazing.

I don't think I really have the ability to build the knee wall, but if I did, how would I do it? It took me a little time to interpret everything from above, but here's what I am thinking:

• Add angle braces under the 2x4 connections to the 4x4 posts.
• You mentioned I should double up on the 2x4x8s in between the posts. Would it make any sense to get 4 2x6x12s and add those to the TOP of the posts/2x4x8s on the front and back walls?
• I will definitely switch out the 2x4x10's for 2x6x10s. Should I get them as 12' since the span of the run is 10'? By that I mean should there be overhang of the rafter?
• I will also get rafter ties to connect these
• Should I add in some bracing like you have in yours in the corner from the posts to the upper 2x4s?
• Can I ask why your door is like that?

 

[Emak2323]

You've already cut the 2x4's and toe screwed them in for the upper support so unless you go back and get longer members for the top "beam" you should add the cleats underneath and lag screw them into the posts. I would also double them up. A 2x4 isn't going to support much weight the way you have this framed.
You definitely cannot go with a plate style rafter. You have to turn them so they can support load. And a 2x4 isn't going to cut it on a 10' span. You are going to need to bump up to 2x6 rafters.

Below is the way it should have been framed to support a snow load.
This structure is 28'x12' with a 12/2.5 pitch for a shingled roof.
4x4 posts set on concrete foots, 8' OC. I toe screwed 2x4s to the bottom spans between the posts for HC attachment and to support the vertical 2x4s that were installed for the HC strips.
I used doubled up 2x6s for the beams front and back and they sit ON TOP of the posts in the caps.
The 2x6 rafters were installed 24" OC with a birds mouth notch over both beams to bear full weight over the surface of the beam. Everything is enclosed in HC.
View attachment 2081121View attachment 2081122View attachment 2081125View attachment 2081127
View attachment 2081132

With such a shallow pitch on your 10' span, I wouldn't expect a good drainage. Tarps will be a big mess and the weight of the snow over the 2 ft span between your rafters will rip the hardware cloth down eventually.
I would suggest you build a 20" knee wall on the front wall so you would end up with a 12/2 pitch which will drain better. You could then install purlins across the rafters and put up polycarbonate roofing. I'd be concerned about using anything heavier than polycarb on that framing. You want to keep the dead load as low as you can.
Increasing the pitch might let you get away with HC with a very HD tarp over the top. Don't expect the tarp to last more than one season, two if you're very lucky.
Good luck with your project!

oops - i don't think I hit reply to your post... I had some follow up questions for you in the comment below.

 

[DobieLover]

You can easily build a knee wall. It's very simple.
Just do it in two 12' sections. Get four 12' and two 10' 2x4 PT boards. If your run is EXACTLY 24', cut each of the 12' 2x4s to 12' (they always come a little longer). Then cut up the 10' lumber into 17" lengths. Use one as a template to make sure they are all exactly the same length. Mark one 12 footer up to place the short studs 24 inches on center (OC) then line up the marked 12 footer to each of the others and transfer the marks there. Now you are ready to lay them out in pairs with the marks facing each other and lay the 17" studs between them. Shoot two nails in on the bottom and again on the top along the length of the 12 footers. Turn it up and there's your knee wall. Lift them up on the front wall and clamp them in place until you've shot two nail down into your new beam along the length of the wall. It's not hard. I hope I've described this well enough to you and not insulted you if you already knew the basics for a wall!

Make two:

• Add angle braces under the 2x4 connections to the 4x4 posts. You would not need to do this if you do the option you suggest below.
• You mentioned I should double up on the 2x4x8s in between the posts. Would it make any sense to get 4 2x6x12s and add those to the TOP of the posts/2x4x8s on the front and back walls? Yes, but they need to be doubled up to make a proper beam. You need to install them with caps. You can buy split caps that will slid over the 4x4 and up against your beam (see below). Use 2 per post and attach them with proper structural screws. Remove the existing toe screwed 2x4s. You can salvage that lumber by using them for cross-bracing..
• I will definitely switch out the 2x4x10's for 2x6x10s. Should I get them as 12' since the span of the run is 10'? By that I mean should there be overhang of the rafter? YES! Use 12'. In my run framing pictures, the rafters are 14' long.
• I will also get rafter ties to connect these
• Should I add in some bracing like you have in yours in the corner from the posts to the upper 2x4s? Yes. It will prevent racking. You will also want to do it on the 10' side too. See below how I added mine (I pointed to them with red arrows). You want them a minimum of 2' down from the beam. The easiest way to do that for a beginner carpenter is to measure down from the beam on your post and put a mark at 2'. Then take one of those 2x4s you are removing, cut one end to 45 degrees then push it up to the beam and and keep moving it away from the marked post until it crosses your mark. Then mark the 2x4 and bring it back to the chop saw and cut it. Use that as a template to make all your cross-braces.
• Can I ask why your door is like that? I had to cut the door to fit under the brace support. I wanted the door wide enough for me to get my wheelbarrow in the run to add wood chips as needed.

https://www.lowes.com/pd/USP-4-in-x-4-in-Triple-Zinc-Wood-to-Wood-Cap/3367792

You can click on the My Coop link in my avatar and it will bring you to the article I wrote on how I converted my shed into my coop and built the run. It's got lots of pictures and I think it might help you.