Sexing eggs???

[pete55]

Hi

Altering temperatures with birds does not change the sex and I would never advocate changing temperatures to try and do so. As I said it is the ovum of the female the pre-determines the sex of the chick. It will either have a Z chromosome (and be male) or a W chromosome and be female. So the shape and size of the egg does not alter the inherited sex chromosomes. The layers of albumen are added and finally the membranes and shell which may change the size and shape of the laid egg. However these physical changes will not influence the actual ovum's gene compliment.

With the tortoises its different and the incubating temperature directly influences the sex of the youngster. However Gypsy07 is correct in stating that extremes of temperatures can have detrimental effects on the developing embryo. There are fine parameters to work within.

Around 26 - 27C all the babies will generally be males.
Around 28 - 30C and the babies are mixed sexes.
Around 30-32C and the babies are generally females.

Its very usueful for breeding endangered species and especially as the tortoises need to be around 5-6 years before you can sex them! I've not had problems with erring on the low side for males but nearer to 33C then physical defects begin to occur such as extra shell plates etc which lead to shell deformities.

This year we incubated at 31.5 - 32C to select for females as we wanted to increase our breeding stock of female tortoises.

Hatchling Marginated Tortoises incubated for females.

Now with Divining Rods I have seen it done sucessfully and indeed saved hundreds of pounds by somebody tacking our burst water pipe so my greatest respect to that skill. However I have yet to be convinced about the use use of crytals, pendulums etc on sexing unborn animals. I've seen it done, heard many woman tell me about the sex of the unborn baby only to have the opposite result when the baby finally came along!


Pete

 

[Gypsy07]

Wow Pete, that's really interesting. Thanks for explaining it. Pity it can't work with chickens, eh?

So what percentage of females did you end up with then?

 

[pete55]

Hi

Usually at these temperatures it's about 90% and our ones we did 5 years ago and kept are maturing as females.

I do have some Radiated Tortoises which are endangered and kept them for 7 years before ALL of them proved to be males

In these cases dealers will often incubate for entirely males to protect their sales market which leads to an inbalance in sex ratios available!!! It a practice that protects their financial market. Very annoying

Yes it would be great if birds could have their sexes changed by incubation but Im afraid its not so.

Pete

 

[Peteyweetey]

Well, I am actually kind of surprised. Sexing hatchlings with a pendulum has been done for well over a hundred years. I know nearly a dozen ranches in Valley Center, California that use a pendulum every single day on hatchlings. The results are extremely accurate. The exception is if the worker is going too fast and might be careless to not wait to see a solidified direction of rotation. I am not sure about sexing eggs, however I do know one farmer that says he accurately can sex eggs, but only after quite some time after the egg is laid. I called him and he said, "Yeah, it don't rotate in any direction. It go from left to right and that's it. The same egg will rotate it (the pendulum) after a few days. I have not seen this first hand, but I absolutely have with hatchlings and chicks. Haha well if you don't believe it than here's what you do.

Buy a pendulum. Try to prove to yourself that it does not work. I'm surprised that you folks as farmers have not had this essential passed down from generation to generation. It really works. Over 99% accurate if you give it a moment for the pendulum to finalize its direction of rotation.
The pendulum don't care, it just does what it does. If you don't like supernatural, sorry man, don't blame me, I didn't do it. I just call it as I see it.

 

[Ciryluk3g]

some oldtimer once told me he could do that to . he said the eggs that are more pointed are roosters and the more round eggs are the hens ? i tryed this in the incubator and i used the pointed eggs to see if i could get all roos guess what out of ten eggs nine where cockerals so i don't know now i

m trying with the smaller round eggs will see what happens ??????? anybody need a serama rooster i have a few !  /img/smilies/gig.gif

lol all of my silkie eggs 7 out of the 13 eggs in my bator are very round like balls lol we'll see if they turn out to be hens!

 

[chickengeorgeto]

So, seriously, someone posted french maran chicks on craiglist and said they are 90% guaranteed to be pullets because - and I quote - "I have learned to sex the eggs and have gotten good. I only hatched the female eggs."
Really??? All logic and education tells me that an egg simply can't be sexed. Larger eggs do not make for roosters (and vice versa). In all of the candling threads and articles I have read, not once has sexing been a topic.
So where is this person getting this?

Sorry but if IMHO you want French Maran pullets run.... don't just walk away from this deal.

I must ask the obvious. If large commercial hatcheries pay Japanese guest workers a quarter of a million dollars per year to sex their already hatched chicks to within a 90% accuracy rate, then why is this person not sexing eggs for Tyson and raking in more money than the Japanese chick sexers earn?

This is not the first time in the last 60 some odd years that I've heard this tail. It usually revolves not around a pendulum, but around the fallacy that a rooster will only hatch from an egg in the shape of a phallic symbol. I find that odd because a rooster does not have a phallic shaped private body part regardless of a rosters' common name.

 

[Peteyweetey]

Really? In that industry? $250,000 salary? One "worker"? Well, I am not so sure about that statement. If someone could provide a factual basis to that, I might lay an egg myself. I mean, one far cry from a fact might deserve another. Either that or I need to change careers. Right?

 

[josy]

Sexing eggs by shape does work but not 100% by any means. Most people that claim success with it say they get 60%-70% success overall. So for all you nae-sayers that argue it can't possibly be true that it could work at all because large hatcheries don't do it because it would save them money on vent sexing employees etc.... Since no one is saying egg shape sexing is 100% they would still need the vent sexing employees as well as more employees to select eggs by shape or develop some new machinery that could do it. Also large hatcheries don't mind culling male chicks like we would. They are all about the bottom line and the male chicks are not a waste to them, they go into fertilizer and other things. In other words they make money off of the male chicks too.
Here's another thought about egg shape: Many people say their hen lays always pointy eggs or always round so therefore it can't be true. Have you compared the same hen's eggs instead of just going off of the general shape compared to your other eggs? Their will be slight differences. To me it seems more likely to work if you are comparing a hen's eggs against her own not others especially considering different breeds have quite different shapes. Yet another reason why this method would not work for large hatcheries.
So can we assume that the people who claim success are not lying or delusional and that there might be something to it even if it will never be 100% accurate?

 

[bantamrooster]

Sexing eggs by shape does work but not 100% by any means.  Most people that claim success with it say they get 60%-70% success overall.  So for all you nae-sayers that argue it can't possibly be true that it could work at all because large hatcheries don't do it because it would save them money on vent sexing employees etc....  Since no one is saying egg shape sexing is 100% they would still need the vent sexing employees as well as more employees to select eggs by shape or develop some new machinery that could do it.  Also large hatcheries don't mind culling male chicks like we would.  They are all about the bottom line and the male chicks are not a waste to them, they go into fertilizer and other things.  In other words they make money off of the male chicks too.  
Here's another thought about egg shape: Many people say their hen lays always pointy eggs or always round so therefore it can't be true.  Have you compared the same hen's eggs instead of just going off of the general shape compared to your other eggs?  Their will be slight differences.  To me it seems more likely to work if you are comparing a hen's eggs against her own not others especially considering different breeds have quite different shapes.  Yet another reason why this method would not work for large hatcheries.
So can we assume that the people who claim success are not lying or delusional and that there might be something to it even if it will never be 100% accurate?

Guess it all depends what you call a success.
A blind guess has a 50% chance at being right. So im gonna say thats how accurate this method is. Even if it was 60% to 70% i wouldnt say its an accurate method.

And yes i have kept track of eggs. I have a project going right now with three hens. All are housed apart so i know exactly whos eggs are whos. Two lay rounded eggs and one lays a rounded egg with a slight point. All lay the same size and shape egg every time.
The chicks are sex linked so i know their sex at hatch. Right now ive hatched 7 males and 5 females. Each hen has hatched each sex. And ive hatched most males from the rounded eggs.

 

[josy]

I expect it will never be an accepted method as their are so many variables at play. I just find it very interesting that some people report very good success rates. I need to test it much more myself to see if I will be one of those lucky few consistently or not.