Sick Chicken--What do I do?

[HealingJoy]

If I may jump in here. A nutritionally balanced commercial feed assures that they get everything they need instead of allowing them to pick and choose what they like and leaving things they may need but not prefer. @U_Stormcrow is, IMO, one of our most knowledgeable people about chicken nutrition. He's said that it's almost impossible, and extremely expensive, to try and reproduce, as backyard chicken keepers, what the big commercial feed providers can manufacture for our chickens' needs. Maybe he will come on here and explain it better than I can. But if you put cake, ice cream, cookies, bread, peas, broccoli, meat and potatoes in front of a child and let them pick and choose what they want to eat, do you think they will get a balanced diet? Sunflower seeds, mealworms and table scraps are the cookies and ice cream. A nutritionally balanced commercial feed, either pellets or crumble, is the meat and potatoes.

This is very helpful, hopefully, he may jump in here as well. I have not had a problem for the 1. 5 years on this diet for her, but with a hard molt, if that is happening, then it could be something different. Thank you.

 

[BigBlueHen53]

Would they also be low energy and stand around a lot? Thank you.

What I have noticed is that they tend to be grumpy and standoffish, even with the other chickens. They don't want anyone touching them, as the pinfeathers are very sensitive, and may be snappish, even toward other chickens they normally get along well with. As for your specific question, let me refer you to @Eggcessive and see what she says.

 

[Wyorp Rock]

Thank you for your welcome.

She even picks at the poultry feed--the kind that has the 5 gran scratch. I created my own, using millet, black oil sunflower seeds, sunflower hearts, oats, split peas, pumpkin seeds, peanuts, flaxseeds, canary grass seeds, and so many other things, as well as free ranging and they get into the compost (allowable). When you say nutritionally balanced, what does that mean, especially when she picks at what is given to her or walks right by it (the commercial mixes)--so I wonder even if a nutritionally balanced option is given, is she really eating all of the items that make it nutritionally balanced, so it kind of defeats the point.

If her issue is pure diet, would this be the first time that she is molting? I have had her for 1.5 years, wouldn't I have seen this before? And on this diet she started laying right at 6 months and consistently through the winter (I have only had her for one winter so far, this is the second winter, I raised her from a chick--even producing double yolk eggs. I guess I am confused about what it means to molt, because I thought I knew what that looked like, but this, this is different.

Her crop may not be emptying, I will look into that, could you give a bit more direction on what I should be looking for there? The poop sample seems good, is there a way to also visually kind of know what is being digested? Thanks for entertaining all these questions.

Would they also be low energy and stand around a lot? Thank you.

Can you post photos of the hens?

Sometimes they can look pitiful and sorry for themselves during molt.

I'm not a nutritionist, so can't say that all the ingredients you are feeding round out to a complete nutrition profile and they may very well do if the birds are eating everything and not just picking out their favorite items. Some may like peas and sunflower hearts more than the other ingredients, so they just pick out those 2 things to eat. This could cause an imbalance.
For me, I just feed a commercial pellet which (hopefully according to the nutritional analysis) gives the birds the vitamins/minerals and nutrients they need. I do feed a bit of scratch/seeds or veggies/sprouts as treats now and again, everyone loves to have some type of goodie and it makes me happy to do it.

At 1 1/2 years, this is a prime age to come into molt. Generally bird molt yearly so it's time for her (and the others if they are of similar age). For laying hens, molting is a time when production usually stops (so they don't lay eggs during this time), their combs turn a bit pale and they begin to lose feathers, new feathers will emerge and replace the old worn out feathers - it's a natural process and it's good for the hens to also have that break in production. Even songbirds molt, usually in fall/winter.

For the crop. It's a pouch that holds food/water. It's located on the right side of the breast. When a hen eats and drinks, the crop fills up, you should be able to feel it if you run your hand up her right side around the breast. She should not indicate discomfort when you gently feel the crop. The food/water in the crop will then be processed - it goes through the digestive system. You should feel a full(ish) crop even during the day when they have been eating/drink and especially at night when they first go to roost - they fill the "tank" before settling in for the night. This is why there's so much poop under roosts The crop should empty overnight and the crop will feel deflated like a balloon or empty sac in the morning before the hen has had anything to eat/drink.
So... feel her crop when she goes to roost. Then again first thing in the morning before she eats/drinks. This will let you know if the crop is emptying. If you need to, feel of and compare a few others hens too. Once you have felt of crops a few times, you'll get the hang of it and learn what to recognize. Hope that helps.

 

[MyHappyGirls]

What I have noticed is that they tend to be grumpy and standoffish, even with the other chickens. They don't want anyone touching them, as the pinfeathers are very sensitive, and may be snappish, even toward other chickens they normally get along well with. As for your specific question, let me refer you to @Eggcessive and see what she says.

Mine have gotten that way during a hard molt and yes they stood around, were picky about what they ate and looked like they were miserable! I fed them some cooked red meat- hamburger steak, etc just a little bit every day for a few days. I think the protein helps them

 

[U_Stormcrow]

This is very helpful, hopefully, he may jump in here as well. I have not had a problem for the 1. 5 years on this diet for her, but with a hard molt, if that is happening, then it could be something different. Thank you.

SO...

I'm going to defer to Eggcessive and Wyorp Rock (above) on all things related to poultry illness and injury.

As with most here, I generally recommend relying on a well formulated commercial feed to ensure your birds get the nutrition they need, and am happy to advise on what I look for in a commercial feed and why. Making your own well balanced feed is hard, and its not economical for most - I've often said that the more I learn about feeding chickens, the less inclined I am to attempt to mix my own.

Would need to know a bunch more about your feed regimen to start doing the calculations, but since only one bird is seemingly affected, my first thought is NOT your feed.

From description and photos, I'll offer two things, but no conclusive diagnosis. First, that sounds a lot like a hard molt. There is almost nothing you can do with chicken feed to make that go faster. There are a lot of things you can do with chicken feed to make that go slower. Wait, what???

Molting requires dropping and replacing feathers. Feathers are made mostly of protein, and specifically the protein beta-keratin. Beta Keratin is made mostly of glycine, proline, serine - all amino acids a chicken can manufacture on its own, and all AAs readily found in the diet. Also Cysteine, which a bird can get in part from diet, and in part by conversion of Methionine (they are both sulfur containing AAs) with the addition of serine.

Because a chicken can't effectively store protein (they excrete what they don't use each day), there are two practical limits on the ability of feed to affect speed of molt. One is the amount of protein your bird can convert into feathers each day, the other is the amount of Cysteine + Methionine in the diet. As a practical matter, Crude protein numbers above around 20% see rapidly diminishing returns, and Methionine levels around 0.4 to 0.45 will ensure more than adequate sulfur containing AAs to support a molt ASAP. But if your feed is 20%CP with 0.35% Met? the molt will complete almost as fast.

If its 16% CP with Met levels at 0.3 (or lower, in some Organic and soy-free feeds), you can reasonably expect molts to take longer. How much longer isn't well studied, and no doubt varies substantially by bird and environment.

That's the first thing.

The second is that whole illness injury I defer on. Your pics of the fecals (thanks for sharing, BTW - surprisingly useful when diagnosing chicken issues) have a lot of "white stuff" that looks like intestinal shedding to me. There are some dietary things that can do that, and the occasional normal shed, but intestinal shedding is often result of illness from things like coccidiosis or clostridum - keep an eye on that. Both are often present in the environment (coccidia are EVERYWHERE humans have been, even space), and only an issue when they exceed the chicken's ability to naturally keep in check. They tend to be opportunistic infections, when a chicken is facing other challenges as well - like weather and hard molt. Keep an eye on that. If it continues, I'd suggest treating for a suspect case of coccidiosis. Its cheap, there's basically no downside, and either it resolves the issue or you rule it out as a possibility.

That's all I've got. and I really don't know much more about feeding chickens than you could learn for yourself in a couple weekends of focused reading. Hope it helps.

 

[HealingJoy]

SO...

I'm going to defer to Eggcessive and Wyorp Rock (above) on all things related to poultry illness and injury.

As with most here, I generally recommend relying on a well formulated commercial feed to ensure your birds get the nutrition they need, and am happy to advise on what I look for in a commercial feed and why. Making your own well balanced feed is hard, and its not economical for most - I've often said that the more I learn about feeding chickens, the less inclined I am to attempt to mix my own.

Would need to know a bunch more about your feed regimen to start doing the calculations, but since only one bird is seemingly affected, my first thought is NOT your feed.

From description and photos, I'll offer two things, but no conclusive diagnosis. First, that sounds a lot like a hard molt. There is almost nothing you can do with chicken feed to make that go faster. There are a lot of things you can do with chicken feed to make that go slower. Wait, what???

Molting requires dropping and replacing feathers. Feathers are made mostly of protein, and specifically the protein beta-keratin. Beta Keratin is made mostly of glycine, proline, serine - all amino acids a chicken can manufacture on its own, and all AAs readily found in the diet. Also Cysteine, which a bird can get in part from diet, and in part by conversion of Methionine (they are both sulfur containing AAs) with the addition of serine.

Because a chicken can't effectively store protein (they excrete what they don't use each day), there are two practical limits on the ability of feed to affect speed of molt. One is the amount of protein your bird can convert into feathers each day, the other is the amount of Cysteine + Methionine in the diet. As a practical matter, Crude protein numbers above around 20% see rapidly diminishing returns, and Methionine levels around 0.4 to 0.45 will ensure more than adequate sulfur containing AAs to support a molt ASAP. But if your feed is 20%CP with 0.35% Met? the molt will complete almost as fast.

If its 16% CP with Met levels at 0.3 (or lower, in some Organic and soy-free feeds), you can reasonably expect molts to take longer. How much longer isn't well studied, and no doubt varies substantially by bird and environment.

That's the first thing.

The second is that whole illness injury I defer on. Your pics of the fecals (thanks for sharing, BTW - surprisingly useful when diagnosing chicken issues) have a lot of "white stuff" that looks like intestinal shedding to me. There are some dietary things that can do that, and the occasional normal shed, but intestinal shedding is often result of illness from things like coccidiosis or clostridum - keep an eye on that. Both are often present in the environment (coccidia are EVERYWHERE humans have been, even space), and only an issue when they exceed the chicken's ability to naturally keep in check. They tend to be opportunistic infections, when a chicken is facing other challenges as well - like weather and hard molt. Keep an eye on that. If it continues, I'd suggest treating for a suspect case of coccidiosis. Its cheap, there's basically no downside, and either it resolves the issue or you rule it out as a possibility.

That's all I've got. and I really don't know much more about feeding chickens than you could learn for yourself in a couple weekends of focused reading. Hope it helps.

This does help a lot. Thank you! I will read up on more feed recommendations/suggestions for chickens, and keep a close eye on her. I'm attaching pictures per a comment above. Thank you!!

 

[HealingJoy]

Can you post photos of the hens?

Sometimes they can look pitiful and sorry for themselves during molt.

I'm not a nutritionist, so can't say that all the ingredients you are feeding round out to a complete nutrition profile and they may very well do if the birds are eating everything and not just picking out their favorite items. Some may like peas and sunflower hearts more than the other ingredients, so they just pick out those 2 things to eat. This could cause an imbalance.
For me, I just feed a commercial pellet which (hopefully according to the nutritional analysis) gives the birds the vitamins/minerals and nutrients they need. I do feed a bit of scratch/seeds or veggies/sprouts as treats now and again, everyone loves to have some type of goodie and it makes me happy to do it.

At 1 1/2 years, this is a prime age to come into molt. Generally bird molt yearly so it's time for her (and the others if they are of similar age). For laying hens, molting is a time when production usually stops (so they don't lay eggs during this time), their combs turn a bit pale and they begin to lose feathers, new feathers will emerge and replace the old worn out feathers - it's a natural process and it's good for the hens to also have that break in production. Even songbirds molt, usually in fall/winter.

For the crop. It's a pouch that holds food/water. It's located on the right side of the breast. When a hen eats and drinks, the crop fills up, you should be able to feel it if you run your hand up her right side around the breast. She should not indicate discomfort when you gently feel the crop. The food/water in the crop will then be processed - it goes through the digestive system. You should feel a full(ish) crop even during the day when they have been eating/drink and especially at night when they first go to roost - they fill the "tank" before settling in for the night. This is why there's so much poop under roosts The crop should empty overnight and the crop will feel deflated like a balloon or empty sac in the morning before the hen has had anything to eat/drink.
So... feel her crop when she goes to roost. Then again first thing in the morning before she eats/drinks. This will let you know if the crop is emptying. If you need to, feel of and compare a few others hens too. Once you have felt of crops a few times, you'll get the hang of it and learn what to recognize. Hope that helps.

View attachment 4010219

I hope these pictures help a bit. It took me a while to get them posted and some didn't upload, if these aren't helpful, I will try to post more that didn't load this time. Thanks again for your help. I have been giving her more protein, scrambled eggs, cooked chicken, tuna, millet, peas--things like that---but she is very picky! As my other chickens, it's like they know if they don't eat something, another meal is coming. I need to get in the nutrition/feeding forum to stop wearing myself out on all the different options and diverse foods I give them! I promise you, they eat better than I do, and I actually started eating food that I give them! Like pumpkin seeds, she ate them up one day and I thought, she makes me think these things are good, so I started eating them. Likewise, my rooster started eating weeds when he was growing, and I googled it, and it turns out, it is curly dock, and an herb that I could really benefit from. I learn so much from them and their habits. And they free range--so they are eating other creations, hopefully, bugs, during this winter season in NC.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

I hope these pictures help a bit. It took me a while to get them posted and some didn't upload, if these aren't helpful, I will try to post more that didn't load this time. Thanks again for your help. I have been giving her more protein, scrambled eggs, cooked chicken, tuna, millet, peas--things like that---but she is very picky! As my other chickens, it's like they know if they don't eat something, another meal is coming. I need to get in the nutrition/feeding forum to stop wearing myself out on all the different options and diverse foods I give them! I promise you, they eat better than I do, and I actually started eating food that I give them! Like pumpkin seeds, she ate them up one day and I thought, she makes me think these things are good, so I started eating them. Likewise, my rooster started eating weeds when he was growing, and I googled it, and it turns out, it is curly dock, and an herb that I could really benefit from. I learn so much from them and their habits. And they free range--so they are eating other creations, hopefully, bugs, during this winter season in NC.

Nothing in the photos is giving me concern, and that's many more feathers on that bird than I would expect in a hard molt situation.

 

[Wyorp Rock]

I hope these pictures help a bit. It took me a while to get them posted and some didn't upload, if these aren't helpful, I will try to post more that didn't load this time. Thanks again for your help. I have been giving her more protein, scrambled eggs, cooked chicken, tuna, millet, peas--things like that---but she is very picky! As my other chickens, it's like they know if they don't eat something, another meal is coming. I need to get in the nutrition/feeding forum to stop wearing myself out on all the different options and diverse foods I give them! I promise you, they eat better than I do, and I actually started eating food that I give them! Like pumpkin seeds, she ate them up one day and I thought, she makes me think these things are good, so I started eating them. Likewise, my rooster started eating weeds when he was growing, and I googled it, and it turns out, it is curly dock, and an herb that I could really benefit from. I learn so much from them and their habits. And they free range--so they are eating other creations, hopefully, bugs, during this winter season in NC.

Thank you for the photos.

To me it looks like she's molting. I see new feathers coming in. Some hens can seem to molt fairly quickly, while others take their time.

If she's eating/drinking, fairly active, then I'd just monitor her, hopefully she'll feather back in soon.