Silver Pencilled Plymouth Rock

[Egghead_Jr]

Green sheen and black go hand in hand. There are areas where it's more prevalent like tail feathers and shoulders and that is the norm. Birds with some red in feathers will be show brass in white when older. Is it caused by the sun? Could be but there are those that don't brass in the sun so to me it can be bred against instead of keeping them in shade. The connection to amount of red in wing feathers and brassy white is unmistakable to me. The sire of my F1's had very little red and a hint of brass. It can be used, in my case the Dams were of another line and used hens with no brown cast. In my selection of K breeders it was automatic to cull any sign of red. In hindsight I should have held one back in lew of the bad comb I'd missed. There was one of good type, width, and great yellow color of legs and maybe four feathers total with some red splash. He would have been a better choice for back up. We keep two for winter in case of fatality and final breeder choice come spring.

The hens with widest tail tents in F1's have brown hue in sections. Definitely using them as the body type is key. Size and width needed work on the Dam line and they have great color to clean up the F2's in backcross. At least that's the plan.

I said one of my K's has fused tines as I can't think of another way to say it. Two independent points on comb that are grown together making for one big point with a line down the center. Obviously should have gone with the culls.

 

[Storybook Farm]

Here is Bird #2 above: better pics.

Green sheen and black go hand in hand. There are areas where it's more prevalent like tail feathers and shoulders and that is the norm.

Right; I get that there's green sheen. My question was this: in the SOP it states " BACK: Back including Saddle -- web of feather, lustrous, greenish black with narrow lacing of silvery white, a slight shafting of silvery white permissible. Silvery white predominating on the surface of upper back; saddle matching with hackle color."

When my cocks bend down to eat, I don't see green with narrow lacing of silvery white; I just see green. When they stand upright, the hackles meet the saddle feathers, so it appears, then, that it's all silvery white. As in this picture below, unless we're thinking that those long feathers where back and hackles meet are back, not hackle feathers. But I don't think that's the case... working from memory. I'll try to snap a picture of the green I'm talking about later today. (Thanks for the conversation!)

My cocks have no rust/brown per se, but some (who have been outside for three months) were brassy, like this "third choice" guy above. I found two with no brassy; and have two that are slightly so, the one above being one of them.

The hens with widest tail tents in F1's have brown hue in sections. Definitely using them as the body type is key. Size and width needed work on the Dam line and they have great color to clean up the F2's in backcross. At least that's the plan.

Understood. So, I have pullets from this year's hatches that have *slight* brown casts. Their heads are all silvery, so that's good, but if I look hard at the penciling I can definitely see brown. Fluff is less brown than slate... So, question: how to breed OUT the brown in hens?

I said one of my K's has fused tines as I can't think of another way to say it. Two independent points on comb that are grown together making for one big point with a line down the center. Obviously should have gone with the culls.

Yeah, I figured that had to be what you meant, but couldn't corroborate it anywhere on the 'net, so thought I'd ask.

 

[Egghead_Jr]

If memory serves me the silver from wing up across top of back does go to black again under the hackle feathers. There certainly is black up there as the K's are growing and think as the hackle fills out it covers. Currently I've no cocks walking around to check it out on adult birds but thinking it indeed goes back to black above shoulders and the hackles cover. Hackle feathers should match the saddle in that all should be green/black with silver outline. On well penciled hens the top of head has ticks of black. Yet to have or see a K or cock with black ticks that high on head but the higher and more complete the black with silver border hackle feathers go the better. That was something I'd noted on your third K, it had the best hackle.

 

[Egghead_Jr]

These birds are so beautiful and well behaved it's a wonder why more people don't breed them. Then you start breeding them and the multitude of problems and difficulty of breeding become apparent why there are so few of us attempting it. The small size in this variety makes total sense once you see what you're up against in choosing breeders. Something has to give and that seems to have been size over the decades.

The Mating and Breeding of Poultry originally published 1920 talks about the red in males and brown cast in females. This is a long standing situation inherent to the variety. The variety itself leans toward need of running a seperate male and female line. Though the authors say it's possible to retain one line but you must ensure sires are only from well penciled females (no white bib on neck) and dams should have the thicker black penciling to lend to male offspring for full black breast and legs. That or breeding birds of both sex that are to the SOP. It certainly would be easier to run only a pullet line and never show cock birds. There the cocks showing white on chest (not in throat) and lacing on legs are highly regarded. They'll throw full laced females with the desired silver cast and thin black penciling.

All in all a challenging variety.

 

[Storybook Farm]

I was already planning on doing spiral mating so as to keep genetic diversity without going outside my lines. This means that I'm keeping three breeding families ("A", "B", and "C") of SPRs. It wouldn't be invasive of my plans. I could run them with Family A being a pullet line and Family B being a cock line, and then maybe Family C could be "experimental" where I combine lines, or center attention on form above plumage... or something.

Who wrote "The Mating and Breeding of Poultry"?

 

[Storybook Farm]

These birds are so beautiful and well behaved it's a wonder why more people don't breed them. Then you start breeding them and the multitude of problems and difficulty of breeding become apparent why there are so few of us attempting it. The small size in this variety makes total sense once you see what you're up against in choosing breeders. Something has to give and that seems to have been size over the decades.

All in all a challenging variety.

Yeah... I'm willing to try! It's just so hard to get any good advice/info on working to better them! THANKS for all your responses.

 

[Egghead_Jr]

Harry M. Lamon and Rob R. Slocum; The Mating and Breeding of Poultry; The Lyons Press 2003 copyright, original print 1920 by Orange Judd Company.

First 68 pages are principles and practices of breeding then it goes into the breeds and varieties. Pages 69 to 74 are Plymouth Rock general then it breaks into the varieties. Silver Rock breeding is one page 91-92.

Much of the information is what you read in the first 40 or so pages of SOP. Still a good book.

 

[Storybook Farm]

Go it on Amazon for $13 used. !!

 

[Impatient]

If you ever want to sell hatching eggs, I'd love some, they are GORGEOUS!!

 

[Storybook Farm]

When would you want them? I am going to be selling them. Are you thinking this fall or next spring? My adult birds are just coming out of molt now... getting only 1-2 eggs/day. And I'll be selling peeps, too.