Small run overrun with flies - what are we doing wrong?

[serenden]

We have a small coop (from TSC) and we built an attached run for it that is about 6'x3'. We have 4 chickens, about 14 weeks old. We're using large flake pine shavings (also from TSC) in both the coop and the run. No issues in the coop. The chickens are let out into our suburban garden for about 2-3 hours a day. We live in the SF Bay Area of California.

The problem is -- we waited about 2 weeks to clean out the run, and were totally overrun with flies, especially after a heat spell. So, apparently we need to clean it more often or do something different. I'm reading in the forums that many people do a deep litter method in their runs and only clean it a few times a year, but doesn't the cecal poop build up? And does that work in such a small run? We can spot that poop in the yard because the flies just swarm around it, so we pick it up.

So after cleaning out the run and adding fresh pine shavings and some DE, I've been going out and crawling into the run (about 4' tall) to search and scoop out the poop each day, but really don't care for that line of work if there's a better way. Also, with the large flake shavings, it's not easy to scoop.

My questions are, then, should we change the run bedding material to make it cleaner and easier to scoop out poop (and decrease the flies)? We added the shavings because the chickens had poop all over their feet so we thought that some bedding would be better than dirt.

Any thoughts would be much appreciated!

 

[Aapomp831]

We make sure to have at least 4 inches to turn the bedding in, and we never use DE bc it dries the shavings out and doesn’t allow for a natural decomposition. I rake the shavings everyday and add new ones to cover up the poo - then we do a thorough clean out and replace the shavings about every 6 months.

 

[3KillerBs]

The size is probably the problem.

4 chickens need at least 40 square feet of run (10 square feet per chicken), and you have less than half of that. With that density of chickens in the space the poop overwhelms the ability of the litter to react with it.

If you show us photos of your setup we might be able to help you find a good solution.

 

[serenden]

The size is probably the problem.

4 chickens need at least 40 square feet of run (10 square feet per chicken), and you have less than half of that. With that density of chickens in the space the poop overwhelms the ability of the litter to react with it.

If you show us photos of your setup we might be able to help you find a good solution.

The coop is raised and has floor space underneath it that's approximately the same size as the run (a few inches longer length-wise). So altogether they have about 36 square feet of run (the two sections are attached with a little tunnel). I realize that's a bit under the minimum... still think that may be part of the problem?

Here's a photo::

 

[3KillerBs]

The coop is raised and has floor space underneath it that's approximately the same size as the run (a few inches longer length-wise). So altogether they have about 36 square feet of run (the two sections are attached with a little tunnel). I realize that's a bit under the minimum... still think that may be part of the problem?

Here's a photo::

Well, that's better, though close quarters definitely contribute to sanitation problems. The little tunnel is a clever way of making use of the space you have available and the shade from the tree is terrific.

How deep a layer of litter do you have?

I personally start out with about 4-6" then lay down another 4-6" if it gets muddy, if an odor develops, or if the original litter has broken down. It builds up to over a foot sometimes.

 

[serenden]

Well, that's better, though close quarters definitely contribute to sanitation problems. The little tunnel is a clever way of making use of the space you have available and the shade from the tree is terrific.

How deep a layer of litter do you have?

I personally start out with about 4-6" then lay down another 4-6" if it gets muddy, if an odor develops, or if the original litter has broken down. It builds up to over a foot sometimes.

Yes, we had to work with an awkward space and the chickens are getting used to the occasional 'thud' as the plums fall!

The litter is probably only about 2 inches. What type of bedding do you use?

 

[3KillerBs]

Yes, we had to work with an awkward space and the chickens are getting used to the occasional 'thud' as the plums fall!

The litter is probably only about 2 inches. What type of bedding do you use?

I'll bet they love the plums!

I mostly use pine straw in my run -- because it's free for the raking on my property.

A lot of people use coarse wood chips of the kind you get from a tree-trimming service.

Whatever you use, it needs to have enough volume to break down and neutralize the poop.

 

[serenden]

I'll bet they love the plums!

I mostly use pine straw in my run -- because it's free for the raking on my property.

A lot of people use coarse wood chips of the kind you get from a tree-trimming service.

Whatever you use, it needs to have enough volume to break down and neutralize the poop.

Okay, we are going to add several inches of bedding, then, to the run. Lawn clippings, dry leaves, and more wood shavings are all readily available.

So, if I'm getting it right, the thicker the bedding, the more likely it is that the chickens can scratch the poop down into the bedding and it breaks down, and is covered so the flies aren't so active on it?

 

[rosemarythyme]

One issue is the shavings aren't an ideal base. Deep litter isn't simply building up a thick layer of litter (that's more deep bedding) - you need a mix of materials to get composting going. Chunky aged wood chips are ideal because they allow aeration and drainage, both which help with the composting and keeping mud and odors at bay.

All that said, I think the unfortunate reality is with a small set up you're going to have a difficult time getting the volume of litter needed to allow you to be hands-off in managing poop. I know you just built this extension, but a larger and taller run would allow you to go in and scoop up daily, which would solve the issue regardless of litter choice.

 

[3KillerBs]

So, if I'm getting it right, the thicker the bedding, the more likely it is that the chickens can scratch the poop down into the bedding and it breaks down, and is covered so the flies aren't so active on it?

Yes.

Also, coarser bedding and a mix of materials allows the process to work better in my experience.

If the mulch you have around your tree is natural -- undyed and untreated -- that's the stuff to aim for as a base for the leaves, lawn clippings, etc. to mix into.

But you'll probably still have to clean out more often than you would if you had more space because the litter can only handle so much poop.