Spinosad products in Canada

[Wishapup]

Looking for any Canadian equivalent to Elector PSP or similar spinosad-containing product.

 

[casportpony]

@Wickedchicken6, can you help here?

 

[Wickedchicken6]

Looking for any Canadian equivalent to Elector PSP or similar spinosad-containing product.

@Wickedchicken6, can you help here?

Peaveymart in Western Canada has carried a spinosad product, I've seen it on the shelf. Unfortunately I'm not finding it on their website. I would think that the affiliate stores under the TSC Stores name (which is under the same company as Peaveymart) but are located in Eastern Canada "may" carry the same product. It seemed fairly expensive.

However if from Ontario, some products are not on shelves or available to the general public unless you're an accredited commercial pesticide applicator. I'm aware that Ectiban, (a group 3 pyrethroid insecticide) is not available to general producers in Ontario while it has been available in Manitoba. I called myself to clarify.

https://www.ontario.ca/page/using-pesticides-ontario#:~:text=Ontario bans the cosmetic use,exception to the ban, or

In Alberta and now Manitoba, possibly other provinces, a premise ID number is required to purchase livestock products.

I think dependant on your local store, some Co op agro stores "may" carry a spinosad product. I've never used a Spinosad product and I can't remember the name of the product I've seen. My searches are not bringing up the product for poultry. Spinosad was up for review in 2018 so things may have changed.

 

[iwltfum]

Out of curiosity, why do you need it? There are other products on the market that have similar effects. I've used it in agricultural settings before in the US. Just know that it is at least mildly toxic to mammals and not approved for use directly on poultry in the US.

 

[Wishapup]

Peaveymart in Western Canada has carried a spinosad product, I've seen it on the shelf. Unfortunately I'm not finding it on their website. I would think that the affiliate stores under the TSC Stores name (which is under the same company as Peaveymart) but are located in Eastern Canada "may" carry the same product. It seemed fairly expensive.

However if from Ontario, some products are not on shelves or available to the general public unless you're an accredited commercial pesticide applicator. I'm aware that Ectiban, (a group 3 pyrethroid insecticide) is not available to general producers in Ontario while it has been available in Manitoba. I called myself to clarify.

https://www.ontario.ca/page/using-pesticides-ontario#:~:text=Ontario bans the cosmetic use,exception to the ban, or

In Alberta and now Manitoba, possibly other provinces, a premise ID number is required to purchase livestock products.

I think dependant on your local store, some Co op agro stores "may" carry a spinosad product. I've never used a Spinosad product and I can't remember the name of the product I've seen. My searches are not bringing up the product for poultry. Spinosad was up for review in 2018 so things may have changed.

Thanks! Do you remember the name of the spinosad product you saw at Peaveymart? Was it a gardening spray?

Our local agri store doesn't carry any type of spinosad product as far as I know. If it could be acquired through a licensed individual (vet etc) in Ontario I would be interested in finding a source.

 

[Wishapup]

Out of curiosity, why do you need it? There are other products on the market that have similar effects. I've used it in agricultural settings before in the US. Just know that it is at least mildly toxic to mammals and not approved for use directly on poultry in the US.

I'm interested in using it as a one-application product for external poultry parasites. Where did you read about it being toxic to mammals? Everything I've read has suggested the opposite. It is used in flea products for dogs.
I don't doubt that it isn't officially approved for use on commercial poultry flocks but I do know that poultry veterinarians have recommended it.

I could use Ivomec pour-on for cattle for my chickens but this would require multiple repeated applications and withdrawal times for eggs. There is apparently no egg withdrawal period for Elector PSP.

Thanks for your input!

 

[Wickedchicken6]

Thanks! Do you remember the name of the spinosad product you saw at Peaveymart? Was it a gardening spray?

Our local agri store doesn't carry any type of spinosad product as far as I know. If it could be acquired through a licensed individual (vet etc) in Ontario I would be interested in finding a source.

The Spinosad product was in the livestock section and it did have instructions for poultry. Ontario makes it more challenging. I don't know the rules in regards to acquisition and application from a vet. People have had good results with permethrin but unless your vet will sell Ectiban (or similar product) you won't be able to obtain it. Ectiban is considerably less expensive and it is on label for use with chickens.

https://www.drugs.com/vet/ectiban-25-fly-killer-can.html

 

[iwltfum]

I'm interested in using it as a one-application product for external poultry parasites. Where did you read about it being toxic to mammals? Everything I've read has suggested the opposite. It is used in flea products for dogs.
I don't doubt that it isn't officially approved for use on commercial poultry flocks but I do know that poultry veterinarians have recommended it.

I could use Ivomec pour-on for cattle for my chickens but this would require multiple repeated applications and withdrawal times for eggs. There is apparently no egg withdrawal period for Elector PSP.

Thanks for your input!

From your research, does it kill the eggs also or is it systemic? I know more about it in terms of a pesticide application for plants.

I looked into it a little bit a while back for chickens because I was having a thrip problem on a certain species of plant outdoors that my hens have direct access to. There is definitely conflicting info on this.

I am involved in agricultural circles and used to be heavily involved in agriculture in Colorado and know that the USDA and EPA has approved spinosin A and D for use on food products, but with an aside that "washing your produce should be sufficient to provide you with safe food" which is the same aside referred to for glyphosate used on food products.

There are studies that claim mild toxicity was found in tests on dogs (induced vomiting) and that ingestion, inhalation, and skin absorption are possible causes of toxicity. There was even conflicting information within the same site in some cases about its effects and possible dangers. Like when it says, "these products are used to control head lice on people and fleas on dogs and cats" and then the next sentence says "always follow label instructions and take steps to avoid exposure"

Here are a couple links that I found.

Obviously the decision is your own prerogative, but better to be well informed than not.

Not approved for direct use on poultry

and

Toxicity to mammals (Information about human toxicity)

 

[Wishapup]

The Spinosad product was in the livestock section and it did have instructions for poultry. Ontario makes it more challenging. I don't know the rules in regards to acquisition and application from a vet. People have had good results with permethrin but unless your vet will sell Ectiban (or similar product) you won't be able to obtain it. Ectiban is considerably less expensive and it is on label for use with chickens.

https://www.drugs.com/vet/ectiban-25-fly-killer-can.html

Thank you, I'll look into Ectiban a bit more. I'm sure this would be a multi-application product but it's worth looking into.

From your research, does it kill the eggs also or is it systemic? I know more about it in terms of a pesticide application for plants.

I looked into it a little bit a while back for chickens because I was having a thrip problem on a certain species of plant outdoors that my hens have direct access to. There is definitely conflicting info on this.

I am involved in agricultural circles and used to be heavily involved in agriculture in Colorado and know that the USDA and EPA has approved spinosin A and D for use on food products, but with an aside that "washing your produce should be sufficient to provide you with safe food" which is the same aside referred to for glyphosate used on food products.

There are studies that claim mild toxicity was found in tests on dogs (induced vomiting) and that ingestion, inhalation, and skin absorption are possible causes of toxicity. There was even conflicting information within the same site in some cases about its effects and possible dangers. Like when it says, "these products are used to control head lice on people and fleas on dogs and cats" and then the next sentence says "always follow label instructions and take steps to avoid exposure"

Here are a couple links that I found.

Obviously the decision is your own prerogative, but better to be well informed than not.

Not approved for direct use on poultry

and

Toxicity to mammals (Information about human toxicity)

Thank you @iwltfum. I don't have the experience with agricultural products that you would have, but my understanding is that spinosad is NOT systemic. It can only handle external parasites. The absorption into the bloodstream is poor thus why toxicity and egg withdrawal times are less of a concern. Because it isn't systemic, it must be applied by spraying the birds and surfaces rather than applying localized drops (like Ivomec).

The following article claims that spinosad can kill louse eggs, hence the "one-application" claim of Elector PSP. Permethrin is not ovicidal and thus needs to be applied repeatedly.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3273925/

I first read about spinosad here https://the-chicken-chick.com/poultry-lice-and-mites-identification/comment-page-53/.

The first link you posted I think is talking about oral administration of spinosad in which case it would enter the bloodstream. I would only plan to apply it externally.

Thanks for all of your thoughts, I'm finding this very interesting