Théo and the chickens des Sauches

[BDutch]

I threw away the label.
A ‘neighbour’ is buying new feed soon. But I only ordered organic chick crumble and the grain mix.

 

[ManueB]

Online info AR https://www.arwebshop.nl/bio-legkor...MI28jpqcPMiAMVsKmDBx2Xvi_iEAAYASAAEgIrmfD_BwE:

Gegarandeerde voederwaarde/values

Berekende gehalten *
Ruw eiwit (g/kg) /proteine	170 g/kg
Ruw vet (g/kg) / fat	59 g/kg
Ruwe celstof (g/kg) / fibers	60 g/kg
Ruw as (g/kg)/ ashes	126 g/kg
Lysine (g/kg)	8 g/kg
Methionine (g/kg)	2.8 g/kg

Mineralen en sporenelementen *
Calcium (g/kg)	37.5 g/kg
Fosfor (g/kg)	5.6 g/kg
Natrium (g/kg)	1.5 g/kg

Toegevoegde vitaminen *

* Zie afleverbon/productlabel voor de juiste gehalten

I will look if I can find a label of the AR feed I have nowadays later.

I often give some soaked feed as a treat. Especially Ini mini and the juveniles love the soaked chick crumble.

Because layer is not good for the youngsters and all who lay few or no eggs I give mostly chick crumble. I fill up one little bowl with layer pellets each day.

In other situations or other times of the year I change their diet to more layer and less chick feed. Or no layer at all.

In winter I give them more mealworms.



Mine too. 3 juveniles, 3 oldies, 3 younger layers who stop laying sometime in autumn until next spring.
All under 1 kg.



My chickens get scraps (food waste) too. If they are lucky they get some animal proteins like cheese crust or fish. But they also love boiled rice, spaghetti , bread, green beans, fruit and much more. If we have much food/leftovers we don’t want to eat ourselves anymore, I portion it over a few days.
We don’t eat salty and prepare most food from fresh ingredients. Only the cheese is probably too salty (limited).

They also get clipped grass if I can’t let them free range, for real fresh vitamins. They love these clippings too.

The first few years I had chickens I worried a lot about the chicken feed. Wanted to do it right. But Im more relaxed now. I do keep in mind that the animal feed factories make feed to supply optimised cheap/ nutritious feed for the chicken-industry and organic famers. Not for hobbyists.
I trust my chickens to choose what is good for them as long as its not delicious. I know they cant resist yummie food like grapes this time of the year (diarrhoea). So I try to limit that a bit. And mealworms are too expensive anyway.

Im not vegan, not real vegetarian either. Don’t like the idea that animals (especially mammals and poultry) have an awful life and get killed for food we don't need.

And I hate factory farming not only bc of the animal abuse but also for polluting the world with the import of lots of poisoned GMO feed. Our drinking water gets polluted too because of all the animal poo the farmers dump on the land. It’s soo wrong.

I threw away the label.
A ‘neighbour’ is buying new feed soon. But I only ordered organic chick crumble and the grain mix.

Thank you for all the explanations ! And thank you as well for looking for the label. I'm curious because I was a bit disappointed when I first bought organic layer feed and discovered it had so many additives, and I was wondering if it's similar in other countries.

Your chickens do get a quite a varied diet, even if they don't eat meat, and some animal proteins. So maybe it isn't only the commercial feed that allows them to be in good health but the nice dishes you cook for them ?
Giving starter / chick feed is very convenient for me too. If I could find organic chick feed and it didn't have synthetic amino acids I would probably not want to suppress the chick mash, but that doesn't seem to exist here. The only organic chick feed I've ever seen is sold online at a crazy price and with no ingredient list or analysis.

I strongly dislike factory farming too, as I think many of the people who read this thread. I would not buy that kind of meat for the chickens, however, getting leftovers from neighbours doesn't bother me, rather than having it being wasted. Many of my neighbours don't get their meat at the supermarket but have more direct ways of sourcing it. It's also a reason, by the way, that I'm unhappy my partner buys industrial chicken ham for the cats, even if most of the time he buys the organic one.

I'm very sorry to read that you are restricting your chickens on grape. Mine are desperate that we don't have them this year. I kept for them the very few that survived the hail, and they are thrilled when they can grab just one... all the more because they are so rare.
However, we had a huge amount of cherries in may and even though they also love those to pieces, it got to the point that too much was too much - they had enough of eating them about the same moment we did. So I think they know that they have to stop before getting really sick, but that a little diarrhea isn't enough to stop them .

I never tried dried meal worms for the chickens, but am still thinking about starting a mealworms farm. I haven't yet found a way to get them through winter in a room without heating though.

I probably worry too much but I will be less worried when we'll have only chickens that hatched here. Though I have to say the four hens I bought, Lilly, Kara, Nieva and Alba seem to finally have better gut health because their poops have been better for many months now. It did take almost a year !

 

[Molpet]

organic chick feed and it didn't have synthetic amino acids I

I was getting feed from local mills and they were having trouble getting organic fish or crab meal that they used. I assume it would have to come from farmed fish. Hard to know what a wild fish or crab ate.

 

[BDutch]

the nice dishes you cook for them ?

Yes , we should cook a Michelin diner for the chickens more often ️️️

The only organic chick feed I've ever seen is sold online at a crazy price and with no ingredient list or analysis.

Here the chick feed from the pet shops is ridiculously expensive too. But the factory that sells per at least 5 bags (100 kg ) to everyone who is willing to collect without xtra charge is rather cheap. €16 for 20 kg.
The pet/animal/garden shop has organic chick feed on offer now 10 kg for €20,50 .

They do deliver too. But my neighbour works once a week in Lunteren, where the shop is located. So its easy for her to order and pick it up.

https://www.arwebshop.nl/bio-kuikenmeel-ar
Biologisch means organic

I would not buy that kind of meat for the chickens, however, getting leftovers from neighbours doesn't bother me, rather than having it being wasted.

My direct neighbour had a mini pig. She eats sll their leftovers. I don’t want to ask other neighbours.

I'm very sorry to read that you are restricting your chickens on grape. Mine are desperate that we don't have them this year.

This year is not a good grape year in NL either. No restrictions needed. But other years we had so many grapes that I asked my husband not to give so many grapes because of their ugly thin poop.
They may eat grapes, just not too much. With other fruits I never saw such thin poop.

I was getting feed from local mills and they were having trouble getting organic fish or crab meal that they used. I assume it would have to come from farmed fish. Hard to know what a wild fish or crab ate.

In the Netherlands ( ) its not allowed to mix flesh or fish in the commercial feed. Only dried mealworms, tiny river crab/lobsters and such are allowed to add in the poultry feed /farming feeds.

Its also forbidden to give kitchen scraps to animals in commercial farming to avoid general health problems (like BSE).

 

[MaryJanet]

Though I have to say the four hens I bought, Lilly, Kara, Nieva and Alba seem to finally have better gut health because their poops have been better for many months now. It did take almost a year !

I'm no expert but that seems like a long time to me

 

[Perris]

However, we had a huge amount of cherries in may and even though they also love those to pieces, it got to the point that too much was too much - they had enough of eating them about the same moment we did. So I think they know that they have to stop before getting really sick, but that a little diarrhea isn't enough to stop them .

I am currently reading on this theme (animals' innate ability to select the foods they need in the amounts they need). Will post on it when I feel I have a firm grasp on it.

am still thinking about starting a mealworms farm. I haven't yet found a way to get them through winter in a room without heating though.

Would a haybox work - to insulate them enough to get them through winter, though maybe not reproducing during it? They can be stored in bran in the fridge, so I think they are OK as low as 4 degrees C. Their metabolism just slows right down.

the four hens I bought, Lilly, Kara, Nieva and Alba seem to finally have better gut health because their poops have been better for many months now. It did take almost a year !

My understanding is that first few weeks really matter for the establishment of a bird's gut and microbiome. My flock's health only really improved significantly when I stopped giving commercial chick feed (but because of the feed fear-mongers and nay-sayers on BYC I only got the confidence to do that after a couple of years of feeding the adults home made feed). Pasty butt, for example, is just a thing of the past here now.

 

[MaryJanet]

I am currently reading on this theme (animals' innate ability to select the foods they need in the amounts they need). Will post on it when I feel I have a firm grasp on it.

I'm looking forward to your synopsis.

 

[ManueB]

Here the chick feed from the pet shops is ridiculously expensive too. But the factory that sells per at least 5 bags (100 kg ) to everyone who is willing to collect without xtra charge is rather cheap. €16 for 20 kg.

Price isn't really an issue for me, especially now that we're selling some of the eggs, the chickens pay for part of their food ! But paying a lot without knowing what I'm getting bothers me.

I'm no expert but that seems like a long time to me

Yes, me too ! I had completely given up on hoping to ever see something other than foamy liquid yellow poop from them . It happened gradually, in spring all the chickens had pretty bad poop with a lot of intestinal shedding, and after that I was paying more attention to Nougat and Kara's poop. And one day I realised the yellow foamy poops were 95% gone. There is one every now and then but it's rare.

I don't know what did it and why it took so long.
When they first arrived they ate like they were ravenous but that was over in less than two or three months. They were all dewormed and two, Lilly and Nieva, had rounds of broad spectrum antibiotics for other issues, and that did nothing.

I don't think it was only due to the food because food gets digested in a few hours, and the transition of diet could maybe take up to a month, but not more.

My understanding is that first few weeks really matter for the establishment of a bird's gut and microbiome. My flock's health only really improved significantly when I stopped giving commercial chick feed (but because of the feed fear-mongers and nay-sayers on BYC I only got the confidence to do that after a couple of years of feeding the adults home made feed). Pasty butt, for example, is just a thing of the past here now.

I only saw two sets of chicks hatch here but it was a worry for me that although they were fed exactly the same way, the first lot had perfect poops from the start whereas the second hatch of chicks last summer had terrible poops. I kept thinking they would fall sick, but it didn't happen.
Although both had access to starter feed, the broodies Léa and before her Chipie were very reluctant to let them eat it past the first day, and they actually really began eating it only once they were on their own at six weeks. I was giving it on the ground, as a mash, on small plates, mixed with yogurt and no matter what Léa would make screaming noises like it was a dangerous thing .

They can be stored in bran in the fridge, so I think they are OK as low as 4 degrees C. Their metabolism just slows right down.

That's great news ! We would put them in a storage room that is closed and not heated in winter, and usually stays between 8 to 12 (46 to 50) so it might work without supplementing heat. Although it would be nice to have some worms to give to the chickens in winter.
********
I ended up just unwrapping Lilly's foot yesterday and soaking it for ten minutes but she's now really too full of pin feathers to do anything more. The foot will have to wait, which isn't great because there is obviously a small mass of hard pus forming inside. At least it doesn't hurt her and in spite of her awful way of moulting she is still full of energy. She took a break from laying today, I hope she will slow down a bit or even pause. That would be good as she is one of those who lay daily.

Alba has been limping for the past days. She is more or less healed from her bumblefoot, but now her other leg is really hurting her. She could not put the foot on the ground yesterday. She has a small swelling on her leg just above the foot. I thought it could be the chicken equivalent of an ankle sprain but when I looked up the image I could find of the chicken's anatomy, which are not sufficiently detailed for the leg, it turns out the ankle is actually much higher. I'm not sure if there is some joint where her leg is swollen, and it feels squishy. Does anyone know ?

Today I gave her some metacam as NSAID and she is responding to it, she can walk again, so there must be some kind of inflammation.

It feels much calmer now, partly because the chicken's days are getting much shorter. They are not so eager to get out of the coop and they go to bed really early - there's still some rooster kerfuffle but they are all settled down at six. There also isn't as much work left in the garden. We need to finish harvesting the potatoes and beans, harvest the squashes that are already ripe and wait until just before it freezes for the others. Because it's much colder now, we only need to water twice a week and since we don't do winter crops the only things that still need weeding are the carrots and leeks. It's been the shortest summer season for the garden but hopefully we will still get tomatoes and courgettes until mid october.

 

[Molpet]

My chickens have looser poops in the hot weather because they drink 2x as much.

 

[Perris]

I don't think it was only due to the food because food gets digested in a few hours, and the transition of diet could maybe take up to a month, but not more.

except that the chicken's digestive system is not like a stainless steel cooking pot that is washed between meals.

The whole tract responds to what passes through it, and the length of the villi - and therefore the surface available to digest what's eaten, and to become home to what sorts of microbiota etc., which in turn change what can be and is actually digested of what is eaten - changes with the diet, and that takes months, if it is not tied to the body refurbishment that happens during moulting, so seasonal.

And that's without factoring in that your chickens range, and therefore are getting a changing diet in their forage, which will have the biggest impact on their microbiota. Digestion is amazingly complicated in fact; the reductionist approach long favoured by the poultry industry (i.e. let's just look at ME) is thankfully being left behind in current work.