Théo and the chickens des Sauches

[BDutch]

Are the implant for hens you are talking about, similar to the contraceptive implants for woman?

 

[ManueB]

Are the implant for hens you are talking about, similar to the contraceptive implants for woman?

No, definitely not. They are only alike in that it's a hormone delivered through an implant.

 

[RoyalChick]

On the topic of contraception, this study suggests that progesterone contraceptives (widely available in many countries even without a prescription) would have a similar effect to the implant for our hens.

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3273612/

 

[RoyalChick]

On the topic of contraception, this study suggests that progesterone contraceptives (widely available in many countries even without a prescription) would have a similar effect to the implant for our hens.

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3273612/

I should add that I discussed this (and a slew of other academic studies that suggest the same thing) with my vet.
She agreed and thought it would be a good thing to try instead of the implant.

 

[BDutch]

Manue, If you only want support dont read this. I wrote down my personal point of view which is very different from yours and many others on this forum.

It started with wondering why.
Why do people breed a kind of species (breed), that is so imperfect, people have t administer medicines to avoid ovarian problems?

Going back to normal healthy breeds would be a far better solution imho.
We all do things as fits best to our personal opinions/feelings. Personally I really don’t like this fiddling with chickens.

Serious health problems at a young age is one of the reasons I don't intent to buy industrial layers, ever.

Neither do I intent to visit a vet with a sick chicken. I would take her apart to rest and be comfy if its cold outside. Give painkillers if I think she’s in pain or give medicines if I know whats wrong. Dying is part of a natural life too.
On the other hand I know I will be very sad if one of my older chickens die. But postponing it with an expensive vet visit is just not the way I (probably) choose for my chickens.

 

[Molpet]

Manue, If you only want support dont read this. I wrote down my personal point of view which is very different from yours and many others on this forum.

It started with wondering why.
Why do people breed a kind of species (breed), that is so imperfect, people have t administer medicines to avoid ovarian problems?

Going back to normal healthy breeds would be a far better solution imho.
We all do things as fits best to our personal opinions/feelings. Personally I really don’t like this fiddling with chickens.

Serious health problems at a young age is one of the reasons I don't intent to buy industrial layers, ever.

Neither do I intent to visit a vet with a sick chicken. I would take her apart to rest and be comfy if its cold outside. Give painkillers if I think she’s in pain or give medicines if I know whats wrong. Dying is part of a natural life too.
On the other hand I know I will be very sad if one of my older chickens die. But postponing it with an expensive vet visit is just not the way I (probably) choose for my chickens.

I'm in your camp and have never taken a chicken to the vet. But I raise for personal consumption, so I have learned not to play with my food.
I was watching a program on Chinese dog breeders, dogs for people food. They had medium to large size dogs for slaughter. They had a small dog as a loved house pet. At the time I didn't understand. But now I do.

 

[ManueB]

On the topic of contraception, this study suggests that progesterone contraceptives (widely available in many countries even without a prescription) would have a similar effect to the implant for our hens.

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3273612/

I should add that I discussed this (and a slew of other academic studies that suggest the same thing) with my vet.
She agreed and thought it would be a good thing to try instead of the implant.

I remember the discussion we had and I did check whether it was possible to get progesterone only oral contraceptives without a prescription. Turns out that not only is it not possible, but they are not prescribed here anymore unless there is a health necessity not to take a combined contraceptive. I'm not sure why.
If I understand correctly the study's conclusion is that both combined and progesterone only contraceptives are efficient to prevent cancer, but the progesterone only was more efficient. However it also concluded that the preventive effect comes from stopping over ovulating. So, I suppose the implant would also have some sort of preventive effect regarding ovarian cancer. Unless the mechanism of action played a crucial role, which is suggested by the fact that progesterone only contraceptives were more efficient ? Also as often (and for ethical reason we can understand) the numbers of subjects in these labs studies are not sufficient for the statistics to be taken as solid rock !

Manue, If you only want support dont read this. I wrote down my personal point of view which is very different from yours and many others on this forum.

It started with wondering why.
Why do people breed a kind of species (breed), that is so imperfect, people have t administer medicines to avoid ovarian problems?

Going back to normal healthy breeds would be a far better solution imho.
We all do things as fits best to our personal opinions/feelings. Personally I really don’t like this fiddling with chickens.

Serious health problems at a young age is one of the reasons I don't intent to buy industrial layers, ever.

Neither do I intent to visit a vet with a sick chicken. I would take her apart to rest and be comfy if its cold outside. Give painkillers if I think she’s in pain or give medicines if I know whats wrong. Dying is part of a natural life too.
On the other hand I know I will be very sad if one of my older chickens die. But postponing it with an expensive vet visit is just not the way I (probably) choose for my chickens.

I know we have different opinions about that and I don't feel uncomfortable about it. I've always said that I see using medication and chemicals on chickens exactly as I see it on humans. I know it's not harmless. I always ask myself if the health issue will not resolve by itself, or with natural remedies and rest. But when that's not the case, or if it's feels very painful or worrying, I don't hesitate to go to the doctor and make use of modern medicine.
Is birth control totally harmless for humans ? And if not, does the advantage overtakes the risk, or not ?

Laure is not an industrial layer and neither is Piou-piou. They are both backyard crosses. Laure is very young , and she was not a heavy layer at all, two to three eggs a week in her first year. I hope implanting her once will get her laying system back on track. Piou-piou is different, we know she won't live long and it's already amazing that she made it through all she did as a runt who can't fly. If it's needed, I think buying her even six more months of life is worth it both for her and for me. I'm not saying it's the right thing to do in all cases.

Isn't postponing death what we also do when we try to treat ourself from a disease ?

 

[BDutch]

I'm in your camp

Partly yes, but not where it comes to eating animals. I never eat my own chickens and rarely a piece of someone else’s animal. I eat vegetarian 6 days/week and prefer to eat animals that swum freely in the sea the one time I do eat an animal.

 

[RoyalChick]

I remember the discussion we had and I did check whether it was possible to get progesterone only oral contraceptives without a prescription. Turns out that not only is it not possible, but they are not prescribed here anymore unless there is a health necessity not to take a combined contraceptive. I'm not sure why.
If I understand correctly the study's conclusion is that both combined and progesterone only contraceptives are efficient to prevent cancer, but the progesterone only was more efficient. However it also concluded that the preventive effect comes from stopping over ovulating. So, I suppose the implant would also have some sort of preventive effect regarding ovarian cancer. Unless the mechanism of action played a crucial role, which is suggested by the fact that progesterone only contraceptives were more efficient ? Also as often (and for ethical reason we can understand) the numbers of subjects in these labs studies are not sufficient for the statistics to be taken as solid rock !

I need to read the papers again. The reason I have some confidence that the conclusions are correct is that the hen is being used as a model for human disease and is the main model used for research into human ovarian cancer.
A lot of work goes in to establishing good models of human disease and this seems to be the accepted one!
I am astonished that progesterone-only contraceptives are not available in France. I mean truly astonished.
The combination pills obviously work, but the oestrogen content is where the risk is in terms of thrombosis for example. So the finding that progesterone-only pills work was a major breakthrough for women's health and what allowed many countries to feel comfortable making contraceptive pills available at the pharmacy without a prescription. I don't think anyone would say pills including oestrogen would be safe enough for over the counter use!

 

[RoyalChick]

Partly yes, but not where it comes to eating animals. I never eat my own chickens and rarely a piece of someone else’s animal. I eat vegetarian 6 days/week and prefer to eat animals that swum freely in the sea the one time I do eat an animal.

Like whales?
Just kidding.
I am not vegetarian but don't eat much meat in practice. I do eat venison that has been hunted by my friend in the woods here, and I do eat fish several times a week.
Over Christmas I will likely be eating more meat than is usual for me.