The Dorking Breeders thread

[suyoder]

Hi All,

I am NOT a show breeder... I'm in fact not even a breeder. But I've been looking at info about the Dorking, and have four Silver Greys of my own, and I am very impressed with them. This spring I ordered a mixed flock of chickens from Meyer hatchery... including Orpingtons, Australorps, Welsummers, Wyanodottes, Faverolles, Dorkings, and Brahma Bantams.. and the Dorkings are definitely my favorite. I absolutely LOVE my rooster. He's the only cockerel I have that will sit on my hand, let me pick him up without skwawking, and is generally very interested in me. I didn't even pay him very much attention at first... and he STILL thinks I'm just the best. The three pullets are super sweet, curious, and trusting too. I love the way they skittle around so low to the ground!

So I was curious, how do you know if you've got good stock? I KNOW what people say about hatcheries, but everyone has to start somewhere! I wish there was some way to find out where Meyer gets their silver grey dorkings. Is that classified info, or would they be glad to tell me?

I'm new to all this... but I really want to learn about this breed. I have been so impressed with them. I don't think people really appreciate what awesome birds they are.

Here's pictures of the four birds I have... can you tell which are pullets and which are roosters yet? The first pictures are of the one that I think is a roo. These pictures were taken when they were 3 1/2 weeks old. Now they are four weeks.

 

[capayvalleychick]

Hi All,

I am NOT a show breeder... I'm in fact not even a breeder. ...

So I was curious, how do you know if you've got good stock? I KNOW what people say about hatcheries, but everyone has to start somewhere! I wish there was some way to find out where Meyer gets their silver grey dorkings. Is that classified info, or would they be glad to tell me?

I'm new to all this... but I really want to learn about this breed. I have been so impressed with them. I don't think people really appreciate what awesome birds they are.

Here's pictures of the four birds I have... can you tell which are pullets and which are roosters yet? The first pictures are of the one that I think is a roo.

Hi,

If you are a casual Dorking person who has no plans to breed or show, you might be happier over on the other Dorking thread.
https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/118388/b-y-c-dorking-club

The way to tell if you have good stock is to read the Standard of Perfection, written by the American Poultry Assn.
http://www.amerpoultryassn.com/store.htm

The way to tell pullets from cockerels (never say "roo" on a breeder's thread) is that the pullets have salmon colored breast feathers and the cockerels have black breast feathers.

Hope this helps. Enjoy your Dorkings.

 

[suyoder]

Hi,

If you are a casual Dorking person who has no plans to breed or show, you might be happier over on the other Dorking thread.
https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/118388/b-y-c-dorking-club

The way to tell if you have good stock is to read the Standard of Perfection, written by the American Poultry Assn.
http://www.amerpoultryassn.com/store.htm

The way to tell pullets from cockerels (never say "roo" on a breeder's thread) is that the pullets have salmon colored breast feathers and the cockerels have black breast feathers.

Hope this helps. Enjoy your Dorkings.

Well, I can't dish out $60 for a book... That's why I wanted to hear what some of you had to say about the breed... And if you would have some honest but kind opinions about my birds. And thoughts about the gender too would be appreciated. Yes, i heard that about black breast feathers, but does that mean breast feathers with any black? My little male (I think?) Has black and grey feathers.

[Edit]

Honestly? *chuckle* right on. I will refrain from saying "Roo". Wouldn't want to offend.

 

[LindaB220]

Well, I can't dish out $60 for a book... That's why I wanted to hear what some of you had to say about the breed... And if you would have some honest but kind opinions about my birds. And thoughts about the gender too would be appreciated. Yes, i heard that about black breast feathers, but does that mean breast feathers with any black? My little male (I think?) Has black and grey feathers.

And please no snide comments about hatcheries? Everyone has to start somewhere.

Honestly? *chuckle* right on. I will refrain from saying "Roo". Wouldn't want to offend.

Suyoder, I sent you a PM. Welcome to BYC

 

[suyoder]

Thank you!!

 

[Sydney Acres]

Hi All,

I am NOT a show breeder... I'm in fact not even a breeder. But I've been looking at info about the Dorking, and have four Silver Greys of my own, and I am very impressed with them. This spring I ordered a mixed flock of chickens from Meyer hatchery... including Orpingtons, Australorps, Welsummers, Wyanodottes, Faverolles, Dorkings, and Brahma Bantams.. and the Dorkings are definitely my favorite. I absolutely LOVE my rooster. He's the only cockerel I have that will sit on my hand, let me pick him up without skwawking, and is generally very interested in me. I didn't even pay him very much attention at first... and he STILL thinks I'm just the best. The three pullets are super sweet, curious, and trusting too. I love the way they skittle around so low to the ground!

So I was curious, how do you know if you've got good stock? I KNOW what people say about hatcheries, but everyone has to start somewhere! I wish there was some way to find out where Meyer gets their silver grey dorkings. Is that classified info, or would they be glad to tell me?

I'm new to all this... but I really want to learn about this breed. I have been so impressed with them. I don't think people really appreciate what awesome birds they are.

Here's pictures of the four birds I have... can you tell which are pullets and which are roosters yet? The first pictures are of the one that I think is a roo. These pictures were taken when they were 3 1/2 weeks old. Now they are four weeks.

Hi Suyoder,
You sound like me 2 years ago. I got my Dorkings as a substitute for a breed that was out of stock. I was so impressed with them that this year I finally started breeding. Two beautiful chicks under a broody, one week old today, and 20 eggs in the incubator in pedigree cages, with 2 more broodies waiting for them once they're identified as to parentage. Sometimes circumstances change our goals. Who knows, you may decide to breed them too some day.

CapayValleyChick is right -- there are several different Dorking threads on BYC, and this one is devoted specifically to breeders who are trying to breed to the American Standard of Perfection. The other thread is the BYC Dorking club, where all subjects are discussed. Most of us post on both sites, so you're not losing anyone by posting at the Dorking Club thread instead of the Dorking Breeder's thread. But by separating the two lines the breeders can be a bit more focused, and a bit more blunt, without offending those who love their birds but aren't concerned about SOP quality. Many non-breeders subscribe to this thread to learn, but post on the Club thread.

But I liked the questions that you asked -- you obviously understand that there are advantages to good quality stock, you want to learn about the breed, and you make no bones about starting with hatchery stock (you said starting, so perhaps you're thinking about improving later?). You're definitely an enthusiast going in the right direction, whether you become a breeder or not.

Regarding how to learn about quality stock -- it's a long learning process!! I've been reading and learning for 2 years, and I'm still a complete newbie. I have a feeling my learning curve is about to become very steep with these new chicks. The Club thread has been around for years, and has tons of information on it. Just start reading, take notes, reference the important posts so you can find them again (really, that can be such a time saver). It'll all start as a fog and then make more and more sense with time and repetition, just like learning any other new subject. Other resources are the Dorking Breeders Club (http://dorkingbreedersclub.webs.com/) and the Livestock Conservancy (http://www.livestockconservancy.org/index.php/heritage/internal/dorking). You can also get a tremendous insight into the breed by reading some of the older books, published in the 1800s and early 1900s, which often contain breeder's notes. If you go to amazon.com, then select books, then search "Dorking Fowl" you can find a number of the older books that have been reprinted. There will be some imperfections in the printing -- that is just how it is when republishing old books. They're often small, but not that expensive. You can use them to develop a feel for how the breed is unique and how to manage and breed it, should you ever decide to do so. There are also many publications that aren't on Amazon -- just a fishing expedition through web sites of used book stores.

As far as telling the difference between cockerels and pullets in the SG Dorking chicks, here is a link with pictures. You need to scroll down the bottom of the page, as there's lots of pictures of adults (most of which are not SOP -- I believe this site has lots of contributors from England, where there are more standard colors). The very last picture is of 4 week old chicks, showing the color differences between genders. http://www.feathersite.com/Poultry/CGD/Dorks/BRKDorks.html I'm not positive at these camera angles, but you may have hit the jackpot with gender. You may have one cockerel and three pullets. It'll be more obvious next week.

Some hatcheries are really good about telling you where they got their stock, and others aren't. It doesn't hurt to ask. In all likelihood the customer service rep won't know, or will tell you that they can't discuss it. If you call or e-mail you should ask to speak to the owner, or the manager -- someone with access to old records, and isn't afraid of getting fired. Tell them that you're thinking of breeding (which gives you a legitimate reason for needing to know) and want to know the genetic history of the birds. They may have had their own flock for years, in which case it may have little in common with the original stock they obtained, as maintaining good quality within your breeding flock does require knowledgeable management. If the birds just been randomly bred for years they may not have maintained any level of quality, so it's important to not only know the flock's origin, but how long it's been out of the hands of the original breeder. It may not be from a recognized breeder either. You may get an answer like "Larry in Nebraska sold us our first few birds." Possibly accurate, but also useless. If they don't maintain their own flock, then they may obtain their chicks from a local private breeder. If that's the case, they may be very reluctant to give you their source, for fear of you going directly to the breeder and cutting out the middle man. But again, it costs nothing to ask, and you may get lucky. Also, I remember reading somewhere on the Club thread where someone posted the origins of some of the hatcheries, but I don't remember if it was all of them, or just 1-2. You may be able to do a custom search of that thread.

Good luck with your birds, and welcome to Dorkings. See you on the Club thread.

 

[suyoder]

Hi Suyoder,
You sound like me 2 years ago.  I got my Dorkings as a substitute for a breed that was out of stock.  I was so impressed with them that this year I finally started breeding.  Two beautiful chicks under a broody, one week old today, and 20 eggs in the incubator in pedigree cages, with 2 more broodies waiting for them once they're identified as to parentage.  Sometimes circumstances change our goals.  Who knows, you may decide to breed them too some day.

CapayValleyChick is right -- there are several different Dorking threads on BYC, and this one is devoted specifically to breeders who are trying to breed to the American Standard of Perfection.  The other thread is the BYC Dorking club, where all subjects are discussed.  Most of us post on both sites, so you're not losing anyone by posting at the Dorking Club thread instead of the Dorking Breeder's thread.  But by separating the two lines the breeders can be a bit more focused, and a bit more blunt, without offending those who love their birds but aren't concerned about SOP quality.  Many non-breeders subscribe to this thread to learn, but post on the Club thread.

But I liked the questions that you asked -- you obviously understand that there are advantages to good quality stock, you want to learn about the breed, and you make no bones about starting with hatchery stock (you said starting, so perhaps you're thinking about improving later?).  You're definitely an enthusiast going in the right direction, whether you become a breeder or not.

Regarding how to learn about quality stock -- it's a long learning process!!  I've been reading and learning for 2 years, and I'm still a complete newbie.  I have a feeling my learning curve is about to become very steep with these new chicks.  The Club thread has been around for years, and has tons of information on it.  Just start reading, take notes, reference the important posts so you can find them again (really, that can be such a time saver).  It'll all start as a fog and then make more and more sense with time and repetition, just like learning any other new subject.  Other resources are the Dorking Breeders Club (http://dorkingbreedersclub.webs.com/) and the Livestock Conservancy (http://www.livestockconservancy.org/index.php/heritage/internal/dorking).  You can also get a tremendous insight into the breed by reading some of the older books, published in the 1800s and early 1900s, which often contain breeder's notes.  If you go to amazon.com, then select books, then search "Dorking Fowl" you can find a number of the older books that have been reprinted.  There will be some imperfections in the printing -- that is just how it is when republishing old books.  They're often small, but not that expensive.  You can use them to develop a feel for how the breed is unique and how to manage and breed it, should you ever decide to do so.  There are also many publications that aren't on Amazon -- just a fishing expedition through web sites of used book stores.

As far as telling the difference between cockerels and pullets in the SG Dorking chicks, here is a link with pictures.  You need to scroll down the bottom of the page, as there's lots of pictures of adults (most of which are not SOP -- I believe this site has lots of contributors from England, where there are more standard colors).  The very last picture is of 4 week old chicks, showing the color differences between genders.    http://www.feathersite.com/Poultry/CGD/Dorks/BRKDorks.html     I'm not positive at these camera angles, but you may have hit the jackpot with gender.  You may have one cockerel and three pullets.  It'll be more obvious next week.

Some hatcheries are really good about telling you where they got their stock, and others aren't.  It doesn't hurt to ask.  In all likelihood the customer service rep won't know, or will tell you that they can't discuss it.  If you call or e-mail you should ask to speak to the owner, or the manager -- someone with access to old records, and isn't afraid of getting fired.  Tell them that you're thinking of breeding (which gives you a legitimate reason for needing to know) and want to know the genetic history of the birds.  They may have had their own flock for years, in which case it may have little in common with the original stock they obtained, as maintaining good quality within your breeding flock does require knowledgeable management.  If the birds just been randomly bred for years they may not have maintained any level of quality, so it's important to not only know the flock's origin, but how long it's been out of the hands of the original breeder.  It may not be from a recognized breeder either.  You may get an answer like "Larry in Nebraska sold us our first few birds."  Possibly accurate, but also useless.   If they don't maintain their own flock, then they may obtain their chicks from a local private breeder.  If that's the case, they may be very reluctant to give you their source, for fear of you going directly to the breeder and cutting out the middle man.  But again, it costs nothing to ask, and you may get lucky.  Also, I remember reading somewhere on the Club thread where someone posted the origins of some of the hatcheries, but I don't remember if it was all of them, or just 1-2.  You may be able to do a custom search of  that thread.

Good luck with your birds, and welcome to Dorkings.  See you on the Club thread.

Thank you! I really appreciate a lengthy, kind response. Thanks for being 'real'. I am actually really excited that one of the dorking chicks is a male. I had bought 4 females and one male... And then when one died, I assumed it was my luck that it was the male, and then I looked at them one day and there he was. made me very happy.

I will probably post on here again some day with pictures, and brace myself for some critique of my birds.

I will now step out of the conversation again, and let you experts alone.

 

[Sydney Acres]

Quote:
The Dorking section of the SOP is on the Dorking Breeder's Club website (http://dorkingbreedersclub.webs.com/), so you can get that information without buying the book if there are financial concerns (glad to see that it's down to $60, as it used to be $90-100). There are also a number of forums on that site to help people learn about the breed. It doesn't cost anything to join. You can look at most of the pages without joining, but I think some of the areas of the site require you to log in.

Regarding breast feather color, IF the birds are good enough quality to have the right colors, then there should be no salmon or red color on the males, and no black on the breast of the females (I had one cockerel that was so wrong in every way that I couldn't determine gender until he crowed -- his chest was both black and salmon, among many other issues). A chick that has black and grey feathers on the chest should be a male. He will molt out several times before he is mature, so the color may improve with each new set of feathers. In most lines of SGs (although not all), you can also tell by the down pattern on the head, before they feather out. Pictures of that difference are also on the feathersite link I gave you in my previous post. The pictures are near the bottom of the page, ~3-6 from the last.

Yes, honestly, no "roo!!" This is the Breeder's thread. Think of it like the term "snotty nose." It's ok to for the average person to say it, but it's not a term that doctors use when they're talking to each other. So the same principle here -- this is a thread for breeders to talk to each other, and "roo" is slang, and not a professional term.

 

[Yellow House Farm]

Yellow house farm, do you happen to have any pictures of White Dorkings as chicks? When they're still fuzzy?

MacCana, your CA-based chicks are all duckwing based, they're not, however, all silver greys. There are a couple that look fairly SG to me, but the others are going to be mystery duckwings. Your MMCM birds are probably where you want to invest your energies. I know the others might seem precious, but chances are they're a mess waiting to get messier. Keep an eye on thise MMCMbirds to see what they're going to show.

Well, I can't dish out $60 for a book... That's why I wanted to hear what some of you had to say about the breed... And if you would have some honest but kind opinions about my birds. And thoughts about the gender too would be appreciated. Yes, i heard that about black breast feathers, but does that mean breast feathers with any black? My little male (I think?) Has black and grey feathers.

[Edit]

Honestly? *chuckle* right on. I will refrain from saying "Roo". Wouldn't want to offend.

It does look like on cockerel and three pullets.

Thank you! I really appreciate a lengthy, kind response. Thanks for being 'real'.

I am actually really excited that one of the dorking chicks is a male. I had bought 4 females and one male... And then when one died, I assumed it was my luck that it was the male, and then I looked at them one day and there he was.

made me very happy.

I will probably post on here again some day with pictures, and brace myself for some critique of my birds.

I will now step out of the conversation again, and let you experts alone.

You'll know you're ready for critique when you honestly want critique--I mean want it. You're getting your start from a hatchery--95 or more % chance their not good stock. Let me phrase it this way: you're buying your kitchen table from Wal-Mart--95 or more % chance it's not handmade. However, you're dealing with SG Dorkings everyone is starting hatchery stock. There are two breeders of SGs that I know of: one in CA and one in MN. They, like us with our Whites, are working to improve les than stock, but we're seeing progress.

In Dorking-dom, there are no awesome Dorkings, so the question isn't, per se, is the stock good. The question is, rather, are you on the actual path that leads to developing good stock. Many are not, they're flirting with it, but not going that way yet, but there are some who are making that commitment. Enjoy your Dorkings, if you still like them in the spring, it sounds like you might have the beginning of a project. As was stated on another thread, it's going to be about patience--patience an culling.

You know you're ready when you don't have to "brace yourself", when you can hear "negative" criticism, not as an attack, but as drawing the parameters that demarcate the path that will lead to a successful venture.

 

[Sydney Acres]

You know you're ready when you don't have to "brace yourself", when you can hear "negative" criticism, not as an attack, but as drawing the parameters that demarcate the path that will lead to a successful venture.

That's a good way to explain the transition point. When you've gone from, "Here are my babies, aren't they fabulous?" to "Here is where I'm starting -- I know they're not perfect -- Please help me improve them." At that point you have stopped dreading what a mentor will say, and just hope that (s)he's thorough enough to give you the best answers possible (although hopefully in a kind manner).