Two flock question

[LaFleche]

Separate the cockerels until the females have started to lay eggs or else they will harrass the pullets all day which can lead to serious injuries, starvation and even death of the females

 

[redinator]

What is the size of your back yard? That will be a lot of chickens. But you did state that they are straight run, and that you are getting rid of excess males.

You can take this or leave this - they are your chickens. Being as you are going to get rid of the excess males, get down to only one rooster. There is a theory that flock mate cockerels, especially darling cockerels that are so forward and confident with people, tend to make poor roosters.

IMO - it would be better, to either divide like you are suggesting, putting all the roosters on one side, protecting your pullets on the other. Young cockerels can be very hard on pullets as they become sexually interested long before pullets. Pullets are really not ready until they get to point of lay.

Do know, that there is a possibility that none of the roosters will work out. Do remember that roosters are easy to come by, and the more roosters you have, the greater chance of it going wrong. They are not like puppies and kittens, in which if you develop a friendship young, it tends to be established all their lives.

As for separating the older chicks from the younger chicks - it really won't be a big deal. It is important that you have escapes, hideouts and mini walls that birds can duck behind, not just a wide open 2 dimensional run, where every chicken can see every other chicken 100% of the time. Add clutter to the run. Then in a couple of weeks you can put them all together.

If this is your first year with chickens, I would recommend a hen only flock, then add a rooster next year. People often times have really good roosters they would love to give away. Remember you have years to do this hobby, you don't have to do it all at once.
Mrs K

My primary plan was to have a small nucleus flock. One male and a few females to get me started and work out the kinks and learn and build by either getting more eggs to hatch or letting my hens hatch chicks if they went broody.

It all started w a batch of 12 BYM eggs, 7 hatched, 2 failed to thrive . . . 2 weeks later I knew I had at least one male. He had a large red comb at two weeks that even a novice, like myself, couldn't miss.

When the chicks turned 4 weeks another male started to show his 'true colors' which I was glad about because the first male was super aggressive. The first male was also larger than all than the other chicks. When I say super aggressive I'm not exaggerating . . . he grabbed the smallest chick by her comb and thrashed her and drug her across the run when I went in to break it up. Needless to say that was his last straw in a line of bad behaviors that I hoped he'd grow out of, but they only got worse.

At that point I was down to 4 . . . .1 for sure male and 3 possible females . . . low and behold at a little over 8 weeks another male. So far they all get along some chest bumping and pecking between the males but nothing major. If that continues I plan to keep both, but I'm not opposed to an all female flock if they're both tyrants, lol.

I know I don't really need a male since hatching eggs are (usually) fairly easy to come by, but since I have them there's no point in rehoming or dispatching unless it becomes necessary.

Neither of the males are super friendly, which is fine . . .I have one shoulder bird and that's enough for me, lol . . . .I couldn't imagine having 3 or more clinging to me every time I'm in the yard, lol.

 

[redinator]

Separate the cockerels until the females have started to lay eggs or else they will harrass the pullets all day which can lead to serious injuries, starvation and even death of the females

I'll keep this in mind . . .what should I look for . . . so far the males seem more interested in chest bumping and pecking each other and don't really bother the two girls

Edit: They turn 9 weeks on Monday

 

[NatJ]

The 2 BYM and 17 RIR came from the same person and are already together.

Oh, good. I had thought you were keeping them as 3 separate groups, which would be more bother than necessary.

Thanks for the tip on the visual blocker, I could use that in the yard too if they're fighting at the fence.

Yes, if they do fight enough to cause trouble (all day, or causing injuries that bleed, or damaging the fence.)

Most likely you will not need to block them, but it's always handy to have a plan in case there is a problem.

You can take this or leave this - they are your chickens. Being as you are going to get rid of the excess males, get down to only one rooster. There is a theory that flock mate cockerels, especially darling cockerels that are so forward and confident with people, tend to make poor roosters.

I would probably keep two males at least for a while, for several reasons:

--They have each other to spar with. I think that makes them less likely to try tackling the people. The "darling cockerel" that @Mrs. K mentions is usually the only male in the flock.

--If you have no previous experience, and a cockerel does something, you might assume that all cockerels or all roosters do that. If you have several cockerels, and one does something but the others do not, you can decide whether that "something" is a behavior you want or a behavior you do not want.

--If you wanted to keep one rooster, and you only have one, it is mentally difficult to butcher or rehome him, because then you have none. But if you have two or more, you know there are some spares, so you are more likely to remove any troublemakes rather than putting up with them.

--It is not really good for chickens to live alone. If you separate a male from the females he is alone. If you have two or males in a pen without females, at least they have each other for company and to practice chicken social skills.

Do know, that there is a possibility that none of the roosters will work out.

Definitely true.

Do remember that roosters are easy to come by, and the more roosters you have, the greater chance of it going wrong.

On the other hand, the more roosters you try, the greater chance of finding one or two decent ones among the rest. Just remember to actually remove the ones that cause trouble, rather than putting up with them.

divide like you are suggesting, putting all the roosters on one side, protecting your pullets on the other. Young cockerels can be very hard on pullets as they become sexually interested long before pullets. Pullets are really not ready until they get to point of lay.

Separate the cockerels until the females have started to lay eggs or else they will harrass the pullets all day which can lead to serious injuries, starvation and even death of the females

This is a very good point to keep in mind.
You are not guaranteed to have trouble if the cockerels and pullets stay together. More space, more pullets, and fewer cockerels all make this more likely to work.

You might not have to separate them, but you certainly might. If you do separate, I would probably put all the males together and leave all the females together, then start removing males

If this is your first year with chickens, I would recommend a hen only flock, then add a rooster next year. People often times have really good roosters they would love to give away. Remember you have years to do this hobby, you don't have to do it all at once.

I think this is also good advice.

When the chicks turned 4 weeks another male started to show his 'true colors' which I was glad about because the first male was super aggressive. The first male was also larger than all than the other chicks. When I say super aggressive I'm not exaggerating . . . he grabbed the smallest chick by her comb and thrashed her and drug her across the run when I went in to break it up. Needless to say that was his last straw in a line of bad behaviors that I hoped he'd grow out of, but they only got worse.

So you removed him? Good!

At that point I was down to 4 . . . .1 for sure male and 3 possible females . . . low and behold at a little over 8 weeks another male. So far they all get along some chest bumping and pecking between the males but nothing major. If that continues I plan to keep both, but I'm not opposed to an all female flock if they're both tyrants, lol.

That sounds like a reasonable plan to me.

I know I don't really need a male since hatching eggs are (usually) fairly easy to come by, but since I have them there's no point in rehoming or dispatching unless it becomes necessary.

That matches how I would think. Of course there are many ways to do things, so we all get offer advice but you are the one to decide what you are actually going to do!

 

[McChooky]

That's what I'm trying to figure out. I'd like to keep both males, at least until I know I can get chicks from one or the other. If they get along I'll keep both, if not the more aggressive one will go to freezer camp.

The shed is not picture worthy yet. We're moving things around to make room for the newcomers to go outside in roughly two weeks so the younger chicks can go in the current run and the older chicks can free range and have the coop until the 'look no touch' process is complete.

Edit: https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/8x10-shed-to-coop-repurpose.1658586/#post-28520447 that's a picture of the shed that is being repurposed, please don't judge yet, lol.

Having 2 roosters competing for the hens leads to them being tag teamed. I lost 2 hens on the same day due to my young roosters aggravating and chasing the hens.I gave a friend one of mine and have no regrets.I kept mine a year before deciding which one had to go .Peace at last!

 

[redinator]

Having 2 roosters competing for the hens leads to them being tag teamed. I lost 2 hens on the same day due to my young roosters aggravating and chasing the hens.I gave a friend one of mine and have no regrets.I kept mine a year before deciding which one had to go .Peace at last!

Sounds like a plan, unless problems develop before then.

 

[redinator]

Just remember to actually remove the ones that cause trouble, rather than putting up with them.

At what age would you decide the behavior is only going to get worse?
I had a feeling about the first male since he was bossy and often relentless with his bullying, even after the other chick(s) ran and hid.

When I asked about in another post others suggested some behavior modifications such as 'pecking' him when he got too rough; and separating him, or the target chick, for a bit until they settled down. These seemed to work for a day or two, but then he'd start up again.
I was also told males have a surge of hormones around 4 weeks and generally settle down afterwards . . I kept waiting for the afterwards part . . .

 

[NatJ]

At what age would you decide the behavior is only going to get worse?
I had a feeling about the first male since he was bossy and often relentless with his bullying, even after the other chick(s) ran and hid.

When I asked about in another post others suggested some behavior modifications such as 'pecking' him when he got too rough; and separating him, or the target chick, for a bit until they settled down. These seemed to work for a day or two, but then he'd start up again.
I was also told males have a surge of hormones around 4 weeks and generally settle down afterwards . . I kept waiting for the afterwards part . . .

I don't have a good idea of what ages might be better or worse, or likely to change.

If the behavior is causing trouble for me, and it doesn't go away within a few days, I generally start planning for chicken dinner. Or I make a change that should actually fix the problem, like separating chickens that cannot live safely together at that point. The bigger the problem, the faster I act.

If you butcher excess males, it makes sense to remove all but the most promising few when they reach the age & size you prefer to butcher them.

If the cockerels cause trouble by trying to mate with immature pullets, I would not wait more than a month or two past the time the pullets start laying. If they can't figure out proper behavior by then, I doubt I would have the patience to give them any longer.

 

[redinator]

I don't have a good idea of what ages might be better or worse, or likely to change.

If the behavior is causing trouble for me, and it doesn't go away within a few days, I generally start planning for chicken dinner. Or I make a change that should actually fix the problem, like separating chickens that cannot live safely together at that point. The bigger the problem, the faster I act.

If you butcher excess males, it makes sense to remove all but the most promising few when they reach the age & size you prefer to butcher them.

If the cockerels cause trouble by trying to mate with immature pullets, I would not wait more than a month or two past the time the pullets start laying. If they can't figure out proper behavior by then, I doubt I would have the patience to give them any longer.

I was thinking along those lines. The way I see it if I'm constantly having to heal injured birds and one or two chickens (males or females) are the problem they are costing me time and resources I could be putting towards the others in the flock. It doesn't hurt that we eat way more chicken in our house than we do beef or pork.

 

[NatJ]

I was thinking along those lines. The way I see it if I'm constantly having to heal injured birds and one or two chickens (males or females) are the problem they are costing me time and resources I could be putting towards the others in the flock. It doesn't hurt that we eat way more chicken in our house than we do beef or pork.

If you like to eat chicken, it makes breeding projects for any trait much easier. Just hatch a bunch of extras and eat the ones you don't like as well (temperament, body shape, laying ability, appearance, etc.)

If one chicken injures another to the point that it needs medical attention, I would probably butcher them both, regardless of what sexes they are.

If one chicken injures another in a way that does not really need treatment (example: bleeding comb that scabs up on its own), I would probably butcher one of them. Ditto if one regularly bullies or picks on another chicken. Whether to butcher the bully or the victim would depend on which one I think is the bigger problem. If one chicken gets bullied by everyone, that victim is the one to go. But if one seems to be a chronic bully that moves on to one victim after another, then that is definitely the one that needs to go.

I would make exceptions if I thought there were extenuating circumstances. For example, if a broody hen injured another chicken while defending her nest, I would probably isolate the broody hen from other chickens so she has no need to defend "her" space. (Some broodies can stay with the flock, others either get bullied or become bullies. Those problems often go away after the broodiness is over.)

And if those ideas would cause someone to run out of chickens, it's a good sign that the conditions are the problem, not the individual chickens.

Some people like to have a small number of chickens, know them each by name as a personal pet, and go to great effort to keep each individual chicken as happy and healthy as possible, for the longest possible life.

I do not object if people choose to do that, but it's not what I choose to do. I try to provide conditions that work for most chickens, but then eat chickens that cannot work with those conditions. That's my way of balancing how much effort is appropriate for any invidual chicken with how much chicken I want to eat. It also means I do not see the same problem in the same chicken over and over again.