Types of Silkies - Large Fowel, Bantam, miniature, USA?

[Chocolate_Chick]

Hi

I'm UK based and I realise that the way Silkie's are classified varies in different countries. In the UK, I believe, there are two classifications, large fowel and bantam. However I also see the occasional advertisement for a USA Silkie, in both large and bantam. When I look at the pictures of the birds being described as USA large/bantam Silkie they seem to be fluffier. The only visible difference I can spot is they do seem to be much more fluffy, particularly on their heads. Does anyone know what the difference is between a USA Silkie and a non-USA Silkie?

I've also seen them advertised as miniature, when I've contacted the sellers of miniatures to ask the weight difference between a bantam and a miniature they can't answer, so I assume it's a selling tactic to call them miniature rather than there being a sub-set of bantams that are even smaller. Does anyone know whether there actually is a smaller version of the bantam that isn't formally recognised as such?

There's also one person in the UK, that I know of, who is selling 'Siamese Silkies', which are also described as rare and miniature. They do look small but they also have red faces. Does anyone know if 'Siamese Silkies' are a thing or whether this person has Silkies with bad genetics and is trying to sell them as rare?

 

[Trimurtisan]

I'm in the US, and often find myself confused by Silkie sizes. In general, most people I talk with never refer to a size. So when I bought our first pair, I thought I was getting large fowl, not knowing there was a bantam.

Then as they grew out, I started questioning if there actually was a large fowl version because ours where clearly bantam. I asked a few people about LF vs bantam, and to my surprise they didn't know either. Now in all of our defenses, none of us are "Silkie Crazy." I could have just asked a Silkie lover, but that's just to easy. I took the 7 month investigation route lol.

I went to see @cra8ychix flock for the first time and was floored to see her Silkie hens where triple the size of my roosters. It was a come to reality moment.

Anywho, I'll be following along to learn more about the subject of Silkie sizes.

This is Flip at a year old.

 

[Donna McDuckface]

Hi

I'm UK based and I realise that the way Silkie's are classified varies in different countries. In the UK, I believe, there are two classifications, large fowel and bantam. However I also see the occasional advertisement for a USA Silkie, in both large and bantam. When I look at the pictures of the birds being described as USA large/bantam Silkie they seem to be fluffier. The only visible difference I can spot is they do seem to be much more fluffy, particularly on their heads. Does anyone know what the difference is between a USA Silkie and a non-USA Silkie?

I've also seen them advertised as miniature, when I've contacted the sellers of miniatures to ask the weight difference between a bantam and a miniature they can't answer, so I assume it's a selling tactic to call them miniature rather than there being a sub-set of bantams that are even smaller. Does anyone know whether there actually is a smaller version of the bantam that isn't formally recognised as such?

There's also one person in the UK, that I know of, who is selling 'Siamese Silkies', which are also described as rare and miniature. They do look small but they also have red faces. Does anyone know if 'Siamese Silkies' are a thing or whether this person has Silkies with bad genetics and is trying to sell them as rare?

I’m also in the uk and confused. Did you ever find the answer to USA silkies v Silkie?

 

[LynnaePB]

I see this is an old thread so sorry if you've already found your answer! I'll give a shot at answering in case it might be helpful. I'm still learning myself so take it with a grain of salt.

In the US silkies are only recognized as bantams. The american silkie bantam club shows the standard for US silkies on their website. Cocks are supposed to be around 36 ounces and hens around 32.

That doesn't mean you can't find larger or smaller, but they are deviating from the recognized standard. I've seen broiler silkies advertised and they are quite large compared to the regular bantam ones.

The US silkies are bred differently and definitely are more poofy. In the UK I think having the crests small enough so the silkies can still see fairly well is important. Here I believe we are supposed to breed them to be able to see still but a lot of judges seem to favor the huge crests on the very poofy birds so it is being bred for since that is often what wins (some judges will view things differently, what size a "moderate" crest is is up to their interpretation). I think we go a little overboard in the US personally, a lot of my pullets can't see well and need a trim or something to hold the crest back so they can get around better. I've heard show quality cocks bred to the US standard often aren't the best breeders either and often breeders have to AI. The backs are often so short they can't mount and balance on the hens well.

I don't know as many details about how the UK bantam and standard silkies are bred. I do know they are recognized in both bantam and standard.

I would think the siamese silkies and miniature are ones that have been bred towards having certain traits that don't actually meet the standard but that the breeders found attractive. I don't personally find anything wrong with that as long as the breeders are upfront about it. They are basically pretty yard ornaments/pets/designer birds.

 

[Donna McDuckface]

I see this is an old thread so sorry if you've already found your answer! I'll give a shot at answering in case it might be helpful. I'm still learning myself so take it with a grain of salt.

In the US silkies are only recognized as bantams. The american silkie bantam club shows the standard for US silkies on their website. Cocks are supposed to be around 36 ounces and hens around 32.

That doesn't mean you can't find larger or smaller, but they are deviating from the recognized standard. I've seen broiler silkies advertised and they are quite large compared to the regular bantam ones.

The US silkies are bred differently and definitely are more poofy. In the UK I think having the crests small enough so the silkies can still see fairly well is important. Here I believe we are supposed to breed them to be able to see still but a lot of judges seem to favor the huge crests on the very poofy birds so it is being bred for since that is often what wins (some judges will view things differently, what size a "moderate" crest is is up to their interpretation). I think we go a little overboard in the US personally, a lot of my pullets can't see well and need a trim or something to hold the crest back so they can get around better. I've heard show quality cocks bred to the US standard often aren't the best breeders either and often breeders have to AI. The backs are often so short they can't mount and balance on the hens well.

I don't know as many details about how the UK bantam and standard silkies are bred. I do know they are recognized in both bantam and standard.

I would think the siamese silkies and miniature are ones that have been bred towards having certain traits that don't actually meet the standard but that the breeders found attractive. I don't personally find anything wrong with that as long as the breeders are upfront about it. They are basically pretty yard ornaments/pets/designer birds.

Thank you for answering.

I see this is an old thread so sorry if you've already found your answer! I'll give a shot at answering in case it might be helpful. I'm still learning myself so take it with a grain of salt.

In the US silkies are only recognized as bantams. The american silkie bantam club shows the standard for US silkies on their website. Cocks are supposed to be around 36 ounces and hens around 32.

That doesn't mean you can't find larger or smaller, but they are deviating from the recognized standard. I've seen broiler silkies advertised and they are quite large compared to the regular bantam ones.

The US silkies are bred differently and definitely are more poofy. In the UK I think having the crests small enough so the silkies can still see fairly well is important. Here I believe we are supposed to breed them to be able to see still but a lot of judges seem to favor the huge crests on the very poofy birds so it is being bred for since that is often what wins (some judges will view things differently, what size a "moderate" crest is is up to their interpretation). I think we go a little overboard in the US personally, a lot of my pullets can't see well and need a trim or something to hold the crest back so they can get around better. I've heard show quality cocks bred to the US standard often aren't the best breeders either and often breeders have to AI. The backs are often so short they can't mount and balance on the hens well.

I don't know as many details about how the UK bantam and standard silkies are bred. I do know they are recognized in both bantam and standard.

I would think the siamese silkies and miniature are ones that have been bred towards having certain traits that don't actually meet the standard but that the breeders found attractive. I don't personally find anything wrong with that as long as the breeders are upfront about it. They are basically pretty yard ornaments/pets/designer birds.

Thank you for your answer, it’s really helpful, I really don’t know much about them yet. I’ve just started breeding Silkies and have a lot to learn. I’m in Scotland

 

[LynnaePB]

Thank you for answering.

Thank you for your answer, it’s really helpful, I really don’t know much about them yet. I’ve just started breeding Silkies and have a lot to learn. I’m in Scotland

You're very welcome, I'm glad it was helpful.

I just started breeding from my own flock this year, there is definitely a lot to learn. I feel like I'm just scraping the surface most of the time.

Good with your breeding! It's challenging getting started but I know for me it's also been very rewarding.

 

[Donna McDuckface]

You're very welcome, I'm glad it was helpful.

I just started breeding from my own flock this year, there is definitely a lot to learn. I feel like I'm just scraping the surface most of the time.

Good with your breeding! It's challenging getting started but I know for me it's also been very rewarding.

I started with Call ducks a few years ago so Silkies are definitely easier and cleaner

 

[LynnaePB]

I started with Call ducks a few years ago so Silkies are definitely easier and cleaner

Aww calls are so cute! I'm sure they are more of a handful than silkies! I guess the silkies should be pretty easy comparatively. The worst part about silkies so far for me is finding extra males homes and trying to make sure they don't get too rough with each other in the meantime. Breeding to standard has been a bit of a challenge as well but I picked a challenging color to breed (paints are still new enough they have a lot of issues that still need to be worked out).

 

[Donna McDuckface]

Aww calls are so cute! I'm sure they are more of a handful than silkies! I guess the silkies should be pretty easy comparatively. The worst part about silkies so far for me is finding extra males homes and trying to make sure they don't get too rough with each other in the meantime. Breeding to standard has been a bit of a challenge as well but I picked a challenging color to breed (paints are still new enough they have a lot of issues that still need to be worked out).

Calls are cute and funny wee ducks but females are very loud! I have one called Gabby who likes trying to be louder than the others.
I have decided to breed paints too, as well as splash. I’m only just starting out and my birds are still young so I haven’t had to deal with extra cockerels yet. I know how hard it can be with the Calls. A lot of people have said that they have a very high drake / cockerel count this year, I know that I have.

 

[LynnaePB]

Calls are cute and funny wee ducks but females are very loud! I have one called Gabby who likes trying to be louder than the others.
I have decided to breed paints too, as well as splash. I’m only just starting out and my birds are still young so I haven’t had to deal with extra cockerels yet. I know how hard it can be with the Calls. A lot of people have said that they have a very high drake / cockerel count this year, I know that I have.

Haha yeah I've heard calls are very loud! I'd thought of getting some before we got silkies but decided against it while we have neighbors close by.

I've only had one hatch where the ratio of males to females wasn't at least somewhat close to 50/50 this year. I hatched out 8 and I'm pretty sure 7 are males. I've heard a few people mentioning having bad luck with males this year as well though. I'm sorry to hear you've been dealing with that issue as well.

Splash are beautiful and obviously I'm biased towards paint. It's a fun color to breed though challenging to get pigment, eye color, bigger spots, and avoiding excess leakage right. I've got a long way to go with my flock but it's an interesting challenge. I've got a lot to work on besides color too.