Upset.......

[SuperPeacockman]

He put it on his website for the world to see, if he did not want it on forums like this then he should not have put it on his site.

 

[bandbaustin]

If you look on cliftons website, he tells you how he made them. Telling one how to do it and doing it are two.different things. I for one dont have the patience so i will buy my indigos.

 

[AquaEyes]

Quote:
These aren't "secrets." It's genetics, a part of science. The principles of how genes work are out there for anyone to learn, if they cared to bother. I would feel more disdain for the breeder who told people something didn't work, while he was doing it in his own breeder pens, just to avoid competition. That is dishonesty, and a mar on someone's reputation, in my opinion.

Strangely, in other areas of BYC, people are more than willing to help other breeders out with their goals. The Olive Egger thread is all about people who decided to experiment with breeding blue-egg-laying breeds with dark-brown-egg-laying breeds. Information is freely exchanged, eggs are sold by breeders who fully disclose how they got what they got. I don't understand why there is such a veil of secrecy that seems to be maintained with peafowl.

Once these birds are sold, what the new owner decides to do with them is the owner's business. Peafowl are not copyrighted or patented. I see the same questions posted here all the time -- "If I have this and breed it to that, what will I get?" The same people offer assistance by saying what they will get. But as the Chinese proverb says, "Give a man a fish, he will eat for a day. Teach him how to fish, he will eat for a lifetime." I'm attempting to show how things work, and how people can be creative in their breeding. This is no more a "trade-secret" to put breeders out of business than cooking lessons are something that will cause all restaurants to close.

 

[Exotics R Us]

Quote:
He has just put all this on his website it hasn't been on there for very long.

Ricky

 

[AquaEyes]

Quote:
He has just put all this on his website it hasn't been on there for very long.

Ricky

I first posted on the idea of Combining Colors a few months back. Reading it again was very interesting....very eye-opening. If you haven't already, take a peek back. I spoke about something I thought could work, asking if anyone tried it.

From that topic, I started emailing Clifton and asked his opinion. Our email discussions possibly prompted him to post his information, because he was reading the responses here from breeders who said it wasn't possible.

 

[Exotics R Us]

Quote:
These aren't "secrets." It's genetics, a part of science. The principles of how genes work are out there for anyone to learn, if they cared to bother. I would feel more disdain for the breeder who told people something didn't work, while he was doing it in his own breeder pens, just to avoid competition. That is dishonesty, and a mar on someone's reputation, in my opinion.

Strangely, in other areas of BYC, people are more than willing to help other breeders out with their goals. The Olive Egger thread is all about people who decided to experiment with breeding blue-egg-laying breeds with dark-brown-egg-laying breeds. Information is freely exchanged, eggs are sold by breeders who fully disclose how they got what they got. I don't understand why there is such a veil of secrecy that seems to be maintained with peafowl.

Once these birds are sold, what the new owner decides to do with them is the owner's business. Peafowl are not copyrighted or patented. I see the same questions posted here all the time -- "If I have this and breed it to that, what will I get?" The same people offer assistance by saying what they will get. But as the Chinese proverb says, "Give a man a fish, he will eat for a day. Teach him how to fish, he will eat for a lifetime." I'm attempting to show how things work, and how people can be creative in their breeding. This is no more a "trade-secret" to put breeders out of business than cooking lessons are something that will cause all restaurants to close.

You are talking about $25.00 chickens and not $500.00 Peafowl. I think what I said went over most of your heads and this is a loosing battle, because you just don't get it.........

 

[Choctaw Valley Farm]

I think a couple of other breeders have these peafowl as well but are keeping them quiet til???? I can't tell they aren't mine so I will not say anymore. We will see if I'm right later.

 

[AquaEyes]

Quote:
These aren't "secrets." It's genetics, a part of science. The principles of how genes work are out there for anyone to learn, if they cared to bother. I would feel more disdain for the breeder who told people something didn't work, while he was doing it in his own breeder pens, just to avoid competition. That is dishonesty, and a mar on someone's reputation, in my opinion.

Strangely, in other areas of BYC, people are more than willing to help other breeders out with their goals. The Olive Egger thread is all about people who decided to experiment with breeding blue-egg-laying breeds with dark-brown-egg-laying breeds. Information is freely exchanged, eggs are sold by breeders who fully disclose how they got what they got. I don't understand why there is such a veil of secrecy that seems to be maintained with peafowl.

Once these birds are sold, what the new owner decides to do with them is the owner's business. Peafowl are not copyrighted or patented. I see the same questions posted here all the time -- "If I have this and breed it to that, what will I get?" The same people offer assistance by saying what they will get. But as the Chinese proverb says, "Give a man a fish, he will eat for a day. Teach him how to fish, he will eat for a lifetime." I'm attempting to show how things work, and how people can be creative in their breeding. This is no more a "trade-secret" to put breeders out of business than cooking lessons are something that will cause all restaurants to close.

You are talking about $25.00 chickens and not $500.00 Peafowl. I think what I said went over most of your heads and this is a loosing battle, because you just don't get it.........

OK, how about this, then? The same genetic information is freely available for parrot breeders, who sell birds for more than even Indigo peafowl. Google "lory mutation" to see all the steps in transmitting colors, laid out on breeders' websites. Or gouldian finches, which sell for $100 per bird, more for mutations and combo-mutations. Yep, genetic info available for all the world to see. Then there's the GBWF, where ideas are exchanged for other species that may cost into the thousands. Or how about exotic mammal breeders, who post care instructions for pets and breeders, share ideas on diets, etc. Aquarium magazines publish articles from "first-breeders" of various species, along with what they did to get their fry. Yet there seems to be this society of peafowl breeders who want to keep secrets about the birds they breed and sell, so that their customers are in the dark about how to make more of the pretty birds they buy. But, I guess I "just don't get it."

BYC is about helping people and sharing information. There are some people here who don't understand something, so they ask, and they get answers. Other people know a lot about some things, and just post threads here to help others out, as a reference. I posted information on how to try something new, and was shot down with lots of "it's not possible" or "I don't know what I'm talking about" comments. Now that what I said is substantiated, I'm being criticized for "spilling the beans."

 

[deerman]

Well one thing for sure , to understand ,keep proper record and 9 years to produce a new color, pay the 500.00 for one. myself if that much work and time, sure wouldn't sell one for as little as 500.00

Myself see no harm on posting info that has been posted. heck alot of breeders have got down, info on pied bred to non pied what the chicks are .

Only thing i would worry , people with out proper knownledge ,or records, will breeding a alot of blue birds rather than produce the newer color in new patterns.

 

[Frosty]

While I can certainly understand where you are coming from, I think it would be far worse if somebody paid $500 for a pair of peafowl that took a breeder years to develop then bred a few pair for themselves and were selling offspring for $100 while the breeder was still selling for $500. I really feel that the likely hood of somebody like me getting any of the new colors just because somebody told me the genetics to do it is very slim. The folks that could actually follow that and understand probably already know how to create the new colors.