Using Safeguard de-wormer for chickens, I need help

[Saraschickens]

Hello,
I have several questions. Back at the end of August I saw worms in 1 of my chicken's poop. I don't know which chicken. I have 72 chickens total. A bantam coop and a standard coop. I also got chicken mites at that time and decided to use ivermectin. I gave it to them twice, 10 days apart. The mites cleared up and I didn't see any more worms. So I assumed the worms were gone. Recently, after reading more about worms, I'm thinking they were tape worms. I'm reading that ivermectin does not kill tape worms. I have been watching poop like a hawk, but have not seen another poop with worms since. I started noticing about a month ago that my chickens were shedding intestinal linings, about 6-10 linings per day out of 72 chickens. I don't know if it's fine, but I feel like it could be important information. I've also noticed a lot of loose poos. They free roam several hours per day, so they could potentially eat things that aren't great. I've had chickens for 16 years now, but I'm new to the property I'm at. It was a barron 5 acres, and we've planted around 500 trees and plants on it. I'm also new to the types of chickens I have this year. I'm used to silkies and cochins, but now I have easter eggers, welsummers, olive eggers, polish, d'uccles, and houdans as well. I'm very new to roaming them in this yard. They roam a very small portion, a fenced area, within a fenced area, but still around trees. We have many predators being up close to our mountain. Sorry to digress, but I thought it might help paint my picture. So my questions and concerns are:
1. I have not done a fecal float test with poo. For many reasons, I'm unable to and also choosing not to. Can I deworm my chickens with safeguard, even though I am unsure if they have worms?
I read an article about the eggs being dirty potentially because of worms. I heard safeguard is safe and wouldn't hurt anything to cover my bases. I see diarrhea type poop constantly. I do feed them weeds and flowers, some kitchen scraps (not the diarrhea causing kind), they free roam and definitely eat plum leaves, nectarine leaves, & apricot leaves. I thought I might be dealing with coccidiosis, so I bought Corid, but decided against using it because there wasn't enough evidence that it was coccidiosis and this has been going on for over a month now that I'm even paying attention.
And like I said, one did have worms back in August.
2. I found an article that suggested putting it in their water for 5 days at a dose of 3ml or 1/2 tsp per gallon. Can I try this?
I understand there's conflicting information on putting it in the water source, and instead giving it directly to each bird. I want to put it in the water, due to the fact that I have 72 chickens (and roosters).
3. If I did this, should I be giving them probiotics during or after the treatment? I keep seeing that people are doing this, but I wasn't sure if the dewormer was killing their probiotics and required them to be put back in.
4. Is 125ml bottle of Safeguard enough to treat my flock of 72 birds?
I'm sure I have more questions, I can't think of them just now, but I wanted to order this Safeguard off Amazon, but it won't arrive until as early as the 22nd of December, if I order right now. I need someone who can help me in layman's terms. I've never wormed a chicken in my life. But after reading so much information, and talking with others, I constantly hear of people deworming their chickens 1-2 times a year! This last end of August was the first time I've ever seen worms in a chicken's poo before. 12 of my chickens are 2 years old, and the rest are about 6 months old, plus.
-Thank you in advance to anyone who can help me!

 

[Wyorp Rock]

I'm thinking they were tape worms

I'm thinking they were tape worms. I'm reading that ivermectin does not kill tape worms. I have been watching poop like a hawk, but have not seen another poop with worms since.

Photos are always helpful!
If you can post photos of the poops that you are concerned about that would be great.


Tapeworms are most commonly treated with Praziquantel. Look for proglittids in the poop. (See video below).
Here's the link for products and dosing you can use to treat Tapeworms: https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/treating-tapeworms-under-construction.1220309/

I started noticing about a month ago that my chickens were shedding intestinal linings, about 6-10 linings per day out of 72 chickens. I don't know if it's fine, but I feel like it could be important information. I've also noticed a lot of loose poos.

Here's your thread about Intestinal shedding. Photos of the poop would be helpful.
https://www.backyardchickens.com/th...inal-lining-when-is-it-ok-and-not-ok.1606135/

I've had chickens for 16 years now, but I'm new to the property I'm at. It was a barron 5 acres

I thought I might be dealing with coccidiosis, so I bought Corid, but decided against using it because there wasn't enough evidence that it was coccidiosis

How long have they been on new ground?
Coccidiosis could be part of the reason for seeing intestinal shedding. A fecal float would let you know for sure.
There are 9 strains of Coccidia that affect poultry. Coccidia is found in poop and in soil. If I put birds on new ground, I'd treat with Corid since they may encounter strains that they are not accustomed to. Older birds may be able to more readily build resistance to new strains when introduced, but damage to the intestines can still happen. Corid is easy to administer and there's no egg withdrawal.

1. I have not done a fecal float test with poo. For many reasons, I'm unable to and also choosing not to. Can I deworm my chickens with safeguard, even though I am unsure if they have worms?

Yes, you could deworm them even if you aren't sure, but getting a fecal float is always a good idea if possible.

2. I found an article that suggested putting it in their water for 5 days at a dose of 3ml or 1/2 tsp per gallon. Can I try this?
I understand there's conflicting information on putting it in the water source, and instead giving it directly to each bird. I want to put it in the water, due to the fact that I have 72 chickens (and roosters).

Link to article so we can read what product(s) were discussed?
Sure you can try anything

Fenbendazole is used to treat most worms that poultry can have except for Tapeworms, so if you think you have Tapeworms, then it's not the best product to use.

Fenbendazole is dosed by weight. To be most effective, it's best to dose each bird individually. Safeguard liquid Goat Dewormer settles out of water, but Safeguard does make a formula called Aqua Sol that is meant to go in water, it's expensive and geared toward/marketed to larger operations. The Aqua Sol dosing is to treat Roundworms only.

I have seen some threads and folks talking of putting the Goat dewormer in food or water, I can't say how effective it is, it's dependent on the bird eating/drinking the correct amount of feed and the medication being equally distributed throughout the water or feed.

3. If I did this, should I be giving them probiotics during or after the treatment? I keep seeing that people are doing this, but I wasn't sure if the dewormer was killing their probiotics and required them to be put back in.

Some give probiotics after any treatment. The thought is medications may disrupt the gut flora so probiotics will help restore the gut.

4. Is 125ml bottle of Safeguard enough to treat my flock of 72 birds?

IF you are going to add 3ml Safeguard Goat Dewormer to a gallon of water every day for 5 days, you'd need 15ml.
72birds drink how many gallons a day?

 

[Saraschickens]

Photos are always helpful!
If you can post photos of the poops that you are concerned about that would be great.


Tapeworms are most commonly treated with Praziquantel. Look for proglittids in the poop. (See video below).
Here's the link for products and dosing you can use to treat Tapeworms: https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/treating-tapeworms-under-construction.1220309/

Here's your thread about Intestinal shedding. Photos of the poop would be helpful.
https://www.backyardchickens.com/th...inal-lining-when-is-it-ok-and-not-ok.1606135/


How long have they been on new ground?
Coccidiosis could be part of the reason for seeing intestinal shedding. A fecal float would let you know for sure.
There are 9 strains of Coccidia that affect poultry. Coccidia is found in poop and in soil. If I put birds on new ground, I'd treat with Corid since they may encounter strains that they are not accustomed to. Older birds may be able to more readily build resistance to new strains when introduced, but damage to the intestines can still happen. Corid is easy to administer and there's no egg withdrawal.


Yes, you could deworm them even if you aren't sure, but getting a fecal float is always a good idea if possible.

Link to article so we can read what product(s) were discussed?
Sure you can try anything

Fenbendazole is used to treat most worms that poultry can have except for Tapeworms, so if you think you have Tapeworms, then it's not the best product to use.

Fenbendazole is dosed by weight. To be most effective, it's best to dose each bird individually. Safeguard liquid Goat Dewormer settles out of water, but Safeguard does make a formula called Aqua Sol that is meant to go in water, it's expensive and geared toward/marketed to larger operations. The Aqua Sol dosing is to treat Roundworms only.

I have seen some threads and folks talking of putting the Goat dewormer in food or water, I can't say how effective it is, it's dependent on the bird eating/drinking the correct amount of feed and the medication being equally distributed throughout the water or feed.



Some give probiotics after any treatment. The thought is medications may disrupt the gut flora so probiotics will help restore the gut.

IF you are going to add 3ml Safeguard Goat Dewormer to a gallon of water every day for 5 days, you'd need 15ml.
72birds drink how many gallons a day?

Thank you Wyorp Rock! That was so much good info to work off of!
https://silverhomestead.com/how-to-get-cleaner-laid-eggs/#:~:text=You should add the white,same Whiting True Blue hen.
This is the article about the worms causing dirty eggs, and using Safeguard in the water for 5 days. I hope that link copied correctly, it looks weird to me.
I will see what pictures I can come up with. I didn't take a picture of the worms unfortunately, but it did look similar to the video you mentioned.
I attached some recent pictures I took 5 days ago that really bothered me. The first 2 are the same poop (standard coop). They didn't look green in real life, but the chickens do eat weeds and green things.
The 3 last pictures are very concerning to me. The very last picture (my full on free roamer), I pulled the red out to feel if it was blood or a lining. It was squishy and more solid, like a lining.
The 1st and last of those 3 was very odd (3rd and 5th pictures), and very watery, so they worried me enough to take pictures.
The 3rd picture is in my bantam coop.
The middle of those 3 (the 4th picture) is a little closer to the intestinal sheds I've been getting, but still more watery. I usually get anywhere from a nice solid intestinal lining all the way to watery like that. All the textures in between, (with poop too, not just watery like that.)
These pictures are not my common normal poops, which was why I took the pictures.
Is there any other worm that looks like the tapeworm? I haven't seen another worm since.
I really want to treat in the water, ideally. I'm coming to grips with the fact that I should probably reduce my flock (for these reasons). The most chickens I've ever had before was around 60, but they didn't get anything bad except for chicken mites.
I can't imagine individually dosing each bird, putting liquid in their beak/mouth. I've treated every bird with Ivermectin twice (drops at the base of their necks), and Chicken dust (with Permethrin) on everyone at another time. I'm new to Ivermectin this year. I don't like the dust because of the Permethrin, and it's a nasty job.
I also wanted to mention that I have the 1ml syringes, and was hoping to treat in that type of measurement, or in cooking measurements (ie: 1/8, 1/4, 1/2, tsp, TBSP, type measurements). I'm sorry to sound so ignorant, but math isn't my forte.
Thank you again so much for writing to me, and so diligently answering my questions.
-Sara

 

[Saraschickens]

I also get many many normal poops. I should also mention they can potentially eat cherry leaves and mimosa leaves, but I haven't physically seen them eat either of those...but they could. They favor the plum, plout, nectarine, and apricot leaves.

 

[Saraschickens]

I noticed this girl yesterday was looking odd to me. I put her on the perch to get a good picture. She has a bit of a hump, that the other 3 don't have. Both those pictures are a bit unnatural because she didn't want me to take a photo, so she more fluffed up than normal. The 3rd picture is of her just normal. I notice her hair is messed up, she looks like Papa's favorite. I also have multiple roosters in that coop. She acts normal. In the last picture she's the one on the left.

 

[Saraschickens]

I just took these pictures in my bantam coop. In that last picture, I just found worms! Different than the ones I saw before. Before, it was just like the You Tube video you attached. Firm poop with a bunch little white worms wiggling around. That poo was in my standard coop. This yellow one with tiny worms was in my bantam coop. I've seen that kind of poop before in there, but never noticed the worms. They were definitely worms moving around, but I couldn't get a picture or a clear look at it.

 

[Wyorp Rock]

Thanks for the links and the photos.

Looks like you have gotten some great answers on another thread.
I hope you find a way to treat your flock that is most effective and efficient.

Good Luck!

Hi! I want to treat my chickens with ivermectin, safeguard and Corid to cover all my bases. I see U_Stormcrow says yes to Ivermectin and Safeguard together. Can I follow this up with Corid? Or Corid with them? Or Corid first? Thank you!
-Sara

What do you suspect is wrong—coccidiosis, worms? Ivermectin is said to have lost some effect against worms, due to past overuse for mite treatment. It has an egg withdrawal time. SafeGuard 10% will treat most chickens worms with a dosage of 0.25 ml per pound given orally for 5 consecutive days. To treat only roundworms, give it once and then again in 10 days. It has a 14 day egg withdrawal time. Corid only treats coccidiosis. Dosage is 2 tsp of the liquid per gallon of water for 5 days.

In your previous thread, @coach723 really gave you a good explanation of intestinal shedding. She didn’t think that it sounded like coccidiosis. Many vets will perform a fecal float on fresh droppings, if you call them first to make sure. But worming may actually be less expensive.

Or could I treat with ivermectin and Corid and skip the safeguard altogether? And if I did, could I use them at the same time?

I would not use ivermectin, since SafeGuard is proven to work against most chicken worms except tapeworms. Yes, you can use ivermectin and Corid at the same time time.

I agree with @Eggcessive , I would treat them with Safeguard. If it were coccidiosis I think you would have other symptoms by now. If they get sick with that, they get very sick, you would absolutely know by now if it was that. Ivermectin might not be effective if you have other internal parasites, it may be a waste of time and $$ and leave you retreating again with something else anyway.

Thank you for your reply!
Ok, I had decided not to give Corid since I believed it wasn't the issue. But then in other thread conversations someone mentioned treating them with Corid anyway for the reasons that: I've moved onto a new property, I have a bunch of odd poos (I just posted a bunch of pictures on my new thread, "Using Safeguard de-wormer for chickens, I need help" is the thread.), and they said it wouldn't hurt. I honestly don't have the means to do a fecal float test.
I used ivermectin for the first time ever back in August. Today I just found a yellow foamy poo with tiny worms in it. I couldn't get a picture of the worms, but I posted the picture of the poo.

Hi! Thanks for your reply!
Ok, that's what I thought, but then I got confused again. I just wrote to Eggcessive explaining why, if you don't mind scrolling up to read it.

 

[Saraschickens]

Hi, I just wanted to give an update for this thread. Hopefully it can be helpful for someone!
I just finished my 5 day mash Safeguard dose today. At this point, I noticed the poos have gotten more firm. There were a lot of loose and runny ones before. Now they are basically all back to firm, and "normal" poos!
The shed linings were in firm poos and runny poos before. Now the shed linings are basically only in firm poos at this point, and the shed linings are way less now too. So I think worms were my issue.
I'm thinking I might do another of the dosing in the mash in 10-14 days, just to be sure. And of course, cleaning the coops and runs thoroughly, and consistently with getting rid of worm eggs in mind. I already was cleaning obsessively, but now I'll be extra mindful of worm eggs!
In my case, 49 chickens was 127.4 lbs, so with Casportpony's equation (flock weight) 127.4 ÷ 2.2 x 1 ÷ 100 = 0.5790909091 ml (rounded up to .60 ml) of Safeguard per day in their mash for 5 days, and for my other coop with 19 chickens was 65.6 lbs = 0.2981818182 ml (rounded up to .30 ml) per day in their mash.
I dosed my 4 fully free roaming hens & roosters by mouth at full dose (.23ml per pound, roundedup to .25ml) so that I didn't have to pay attention to them eating their mash.
I also gave everyone Rooster Booster (Vitamins, Electrolytes and probiotics) in their water before treatment, and started another round today on day 5 of dosing. The Polish hen with the lump/hunch on her back is looking better as well!
All in all, things are looking good! Thank you to everyone who has helped me! I appreciate you all so much! ❤

 

[Saraschickens]

Hi! I have a question to anyone who may understand the dosing of Safeguard.
So, I see that the dose can be .23 ml per pound of bird, for 1, 3, or 5 days depending on the type of worm. And again 10-14 days later, unless a 5 day dose was given.
In my case, (my bantam coop) at 127.4 lbs of flock weight, equals 29.302 ml of Safeguard (per day).
But, in the 5 day mash, with the equation given, 127.4 lbs of flock weight, came out to 0.5790909091 ml (rounded up to .60 ml) per day, times 5 days, equals 3 ml, altogether.
I just wanted to understand how the dose of 3 ml total over 5 days can be as effective as almost 30 ml in 1 day? (And as many as 5 doses/days of 30 ml = 150 ml total.)
Does anyone understand how that works?

At that rate, wouldn't a dose of 30 ml in the mash make more sense than 3 ml? Otherwise, if the 3 ml is effective, then it makes more sense to be savvy, and make the Safeguard last a lot longer? I kind of figured, if I was wondering about this, that others might be wondering the same thing.
Thank you so much to anyone who understands and is willing to explain!
-Sara

 

[Saraschickens]

I noticed this girl yesterday was looking odd to me. I put her on the perch to get a good picture. She has a bit of a hump, that the other 3 don't have. Both those pictures are a bit unnatural because she didn't want me to take a photo, so she more fluffed up than normal. The 3rd picture is of her just normal. I notice her hair is messed up, she looks like Papa's favorite. I also have multiple roosters in that coop. She acts normal. In the last picture she's the one on the left.

I just wanted to give an update on that lady. I gave everyone the 5 day safeguard mash, and that solved my problem. I specifically gave her a full dose by mouth, the 2 times, as directed. She did recover all the way and is all better now. So I just wanted to mention, it had to be the worms, and she's healthy and doing great! That was over 2 months ago. I'm glad I gave her the full dose.