Vegan diet for chickens - is it unhealthy?

[U_Stormcrow]

I’m curious do you know what they use for the protein source? Is it synthetic aminos or purely plant based? If you know the name/brand of the feed they use I would love to look it up and read about it. I’m not against vegan feeds per se if they can be done correctly. My problems arises with at least here in the US every person I have met who feeds their chickens solely vegan has sick chickens. Also here production breeds are not known to live a good or long life. I guess that would lead to a more philosophical argument of what the definition of “surviving” is. Anything can live technically on a diet for a period of time, but how long and what their quality of life is would be where the real question lies.

Each commercial producer here in the US has their own "formula" produced for them custom at local mills which their farmer/producers (effectively, subcontractors) are required to use. So you aren't going to find an ingredient list laying about.

We can, however, get some strong hints from the commercial scale vegan feeds produced for independent farmer/producers. and the answer, generally (also, reflected in the literature - and not just for chicken) is that omnivores on vegan diets have a hard time getting enough Methionine, which is an essential amino acid needed for protein formation, which animals can not produce adequate amounts of on their own, and thus must be obtained from their food intake.

Plants, unfortunately, are a very poor sorce of Methionine. Which is partial explanation for how carnivors do reasonable well on nutrient dense high protein diets consumed over short periods in some quantity, while herbivores spend essentially their whole day eating. The best sources of methionine in the plant world are legumes (generally) and some seeds (specifically). Of those, soy has probably the AA profile closest to that found in animal flesh, and a decent amount of protein overall. Rendering it into soy meal by extracting most of the fat (oil), makes it that much more protein dense - which is why it is so frequently found in US chicken feeds, where it compensates for the relatively low levels of Methionine, and lower protein levels, in grain crops like wheat, oats, barley, sorghum, etc.

and corn is used because its cheap, its a ready source of carbs (energy), if has few anti-nutritive properties (unlike oats, barley, most legumes, many seeds), and while it has a low total crude protein content, its AA profile isn't so badly out of whack that it can't be compensated for with relative ease.

Also, the addition of synthetic amino acids (whith the EU is on the leading edge of research regarding) - DL-Methionine and L-Lysine, primarily, L-Threonine (much) less commonly. Due to high production costs, and because deficiencies are less limiting, there's research, but no widescale commercial feed use (that I am aware of) including L-Valine and L-Isoleucine in poultry diets otherwise based on a Corn/Soy backbone.

Hope that helps some?

 

[U_Stormcrow]

Perhaps but we definitely shouldn't trust anything a factory farm does... It isn't as if their animals live long enough to see any lasting health impacts. (Except the ones who get sick and die before their slaughter date.... which furthers my point).

to the contrary, we should be aware of the limits of their interest. In terms of published research, if it doesn't have at least an eye toward commercial production, it basically doesn't get done.

So you either accept the research for what it is, or you have no common point of reproducable reference to facilitate communication.

and even if intended solely for commercial production, it may provide valuable insights for non-commercial applications. If, for instance, decades of research in numerous countries consistently reports that the least cost minimum nutritional needs for hi production prime layers is "X" and someone proposes feeding their birds "1/2 X" for the same purpose, you can be quite confident its a nutritionally inadequate ration - over both short and long time scales. Otoh, if one keeps in mind that the point of a Cx is to be raised to market weight and slaughtered as quickly as possible, its strong hint that feed research for broilers does not have their long term health in mind. SO you look for research on raising and maintaining broiler breeder flocks as the staarting point for longevity considerations.

 

[BDutch]

2 years is nothing. Some of my lines aren't even mature till 3 years.

True, this is only 1/5 of my oldest.

What was so special or what breed was involved in maturing so late?

 

[Bigtom Turkey]

I raise oriental gamefowl. They are special in a lot of ways. Historically some weren't even bred until they were 5.

 

[Apis mellifera]

I was in my lab this morning trying to make DL-Methionine and other synthetics when I decided to stick with tossing meat scraps and letting the flock free range. This hen has got to be at least 6, still lays and is fat, fluffy ready for winter. Of course it helps to have a heritage breed, it's not all diet. 

 

[Henhouse Harlot]

I'm guessing this individual isn't burdened with an overabundance of schooling.

Ohhhh....I love the Firefly quote here! Highly appropriate.