What are your frugal and sustainable tips and tricks?

[fuzzi]

Interesting idea. However, I usually don't know if an item scans at a higher price until I get to the checkout. It has also been my experience that managers at the big box stores can mark down an item immediately, but they don't correct the price lower in their computer system. So, if you go back the next day, they still have the higher price in the system.

FYI, I do have a couple of degrees in computer science and a background in inventory management. So, I understand the ability to do real time updates to a computer system. But I also know that many companies have no incentive to correct prices lower when only a few old men like me complain about a price scanning higher than displayed. If they wanted, they could have a manager update the price in the system for everyone at the same time he/she marks down the item for me in the checkout line. They just don't do it.

I use my phone to take a picture of the price. I will continue to buy the product at the lower price until they update the tag.

 

[BDutch]

And what isn't often discussed is the cost to manufacturer and, later on, dispose of the panels once they are no longer working well.

Why do people question this for solar panels and batteries, wind turbines and not for lots the other stuff we buy?

We use propane...it's cheap and it burns very clean.

Compared to fuelling gasses and oil both solar panels and wind turbines are better for the environment.
Propane is cleaner than coil but still fossile fuel.
The greenhouse gasses are such s huge problem nowadays and still an increasing problem/disaster.
Al the word wide extreme floods, hurricanes and extreme burns are partly because of greenhouse gasses.

Do you have an other option to stop the use of oil and gas?

And. The new solar panels are madd differently and can be recycled too.

 

[fuzzi]

Good to hear that some solar panels can be recycled. But will they be? What's the incentive?

In what measurement can you say that mining for rare materials (using child slave labor), toxic byproducts from solar/wind/battery manufacturing, and issues with disposing of damaged or worn components is still less damaging to the environment than using fossil fuels?

 

[gtaus]

I use my phone to take a picture of the price. I will continue to buy the product at the lower price until they update the tag.

I have started taking my phone into the store to take pictures of clearance items that I am considering buying. I look at the pictures at home to get the model number and then look up reviews that might help me decide if it is something I really want to purchase. The picture is good because sometimes a clearance item is no longer listed in the store's online inventory.

Sometimes you can use the phone to look up reviews while in the store. That is great if you have the time. I don't live in town and usually have lots of errands to run, so I just prefer to look up reviews later when I get back home. Of course, if an item is severely limited in supply, you might be better off just buying the item and returning it later if you decided it's not for you after reading or watching reviews.

Personally, I don't like making a purchase unless I am confident it is an item that I want to keep. I have very few returns, mainly only if the item broke or something like that.

 

[gtaus]

Why do people question this [cost of manufacture and disposal] for solar panels and batteries, wind turbines and not for lots the other stuff we buy?

Some people are just not interested in newer, cleaner, technology and find reasons to support their views. And let's face it, here in the USA we have much cheaper prices for fossil fuels compared to most other countries.

Good to hear that some solar panels can be recycled. But will they be? What's the incentive?

I don't believe much of anything gets recycled here in the USA. As you said, there is no incentive to recycle used goods if it is cheaper to make new. That's my experience.

But that's why I like reusing and repurposing as much as I can at home and sharing my experience with others. My main incentive is that it will save me money, but I also feel good about not sending stuff to the landfill.

For example, I shred almost all our household paper and cardboard products to make coop bedding for the chickens, then compost the used bedding out in the chicken run, harvest that chicken run compost for my raised garden beds, then grow food for the family. Not only do I save money in not having to buy bedding for the coop, but I turn all that waste product into something useful and grow food. It's one of the few things that I actually do that is both frugal and sustainable.

 

[BDutch]

Good to hear that some solar panels can be recycled. But will they be? What's the incentive?

In what measurement can you say that mining for rare materials (using child slave labor), toxic byproducts from solar/wind/battery manufacturing, and issues with disposing of damaged or worn components is still less damaging to the environment than using fossil fuels?

You’re doing it again.
You make it sound like mining the oil and coal products and burning them is harmless compared to solar and wind energy. Transport of fossil fuels makes a lots of damage too.


All energy costs. And official reports from the IPCC point out that fossil fuels are way more harmful for live on our planet than the new fissile free alternatives.

 

[fuzzi]

You’re doing it again.
You make it sound like mining the oil and coal products and burning them is harmless compared to solar and wind energy. Transport of fossil fuels makes a lots of damage too.


All energy costs. And official reports from the IPCC point out that fossil fuels are way more harmful for live on our planet than the new fissile free alternatives.

All energy costs, that is correct.

But who has weighed the impact of fossil fuels vs. the impact of rare mineral mining with child slave labor? Children do not work in the oil or gas industries.

What environmental studies have been done to compare the waste from fossil fuels production versus the toxic results of manufacturing solar, wind, and battery sources?

Some people who advocate for the latter, "green" sources, portray them as clean and better for the environment. They're not. They pollute as much if not more than fossil fuels, and the manufacture of wind and solar and batteries exploit people in poor Third World countries, as well as killing wildlife.

As you said, all energy costs, comes at a cost.

 

[gtaus]

In what measurement can you say that mining for rare materials (using child slave labor), toxic byproducts from solar/wind/battery manufacturing, and issues with disposing of damaged or worn components is still less damaging to the environment than using fossil fuels?

I am not an expert, so I posed your exact question to MS CoPilot AI and here is the interesting response I received along with some links. It might answer some of your questions. FWIW, I think we all should be concerned about potential negative aspects of adopting new technologies while still being open to potential better alternatives. I hope that makes sense. Anyways, for your consideration, here is a copy and paste of what MS CoPilot AI offered along with some links...

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That's a complex question! The environmental impact of different energy sources can be measured using Life Cycle Assessment (LCA), which evaluates the environmental impacts from all stages of a product's life, from raw material extraction through materials processing, manufacture, distribution, use, repair and maintenance, and disposal or recycling.

While mining for rare materials, manufacturing solar panels, wind turbines, and batteries, and disposing of damaged components does have environmental impacts, studies generally show that the cumulative environmental impact of renewable energy sources is significantly lower than that of fossil fuels over their entire life cycle. This includes factors like greenhouse gas emissions, air and water pollution, and resource depletion.

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That first link is temporarily unavailable as I post this, but I included the link because it might be worth reading when it becomes available. The second link is a nice article that addresses many of your valid concerns. A picture is sometimes worth a thousand words, and I think the whole article is well worth reading, but check out this graph...

I appreciated your questions which lead me to some new research and knowledge on a cold, blowing snow, dead winter afternoon. Thank you.

 

[BDutch]

Interesting view about waste production. But this isn’t giving an answer that compares equally.

Can you ask about the same question , comparing fossil fuels with renewable sources of energy for the production of greenhouse gasses?
Compare:
Coal
Oil
Gas (fraction and mining)
Wood (forest)
Water
Wind
Solar

 

[gtaus]

Interesting view about waste production. But this isn’t giving an answer that compares equally.

Can you ask about the same question , comparing fossil fuels with renewable sources of energy for the production of greenhouse gasses?
Compare:
Coal
Oil
Gas (fraction and mining)
Wood (forest)
Water
Wind
Solar

Certainly. I posed that query to MS CoPilot AI. And this was the response...

**************************************

Q: Compare the production of greenhouse gasses using:Coal,Oil,Gas (fraction and mining),Wood (forest),Water,Wind,Solar.

In summary, renewable energy sources like wind and solar have much lower greenhouse gas emissions compared to fossil fuels like coal, oil, and gas. Hydropower also has low emissions, but there are considerations regarding methane emissions from reservoirs. Wood can be sustainable if managed properly, but deforestation has significant impacts.

Ref: www.eia.gov

****************************************

That might be helpful for answering your question. Nothing there that I did not already know in regard to greenhouse gas production. Maybe the table helps a little better.

I was not able to find any nice graphics to represent that data. Sometimes a graph does a better job, so if I can find one, I'll post it.

Of course, there are other considerations to energy resources beside greenhouse gas production. Living on a limited income, cost per KWh or BTU for heat might be my biggest concern, for example. Especially that I do live in northern Minnesota, and we are forecast to have temps this weekend down to -30F.

Thanks for the lively discussion. It's good for me to hear and consider various opinions and thoughts about sustainable energy resources.