Why does every single retail coop seller lie about how many chickens their coops can hold?

[lightm]

When advocating for change, don't forget the China problem. Workers not treated well in American factories, and pollution to environment, so govt raise standards higher and higher.... So companies move factories from USA to China, where workers are treated like subhuman slaves. Like, 1000x worse, with 1,000 times the pollution too. So much suffering in China from the pollution there. My friends lost their babies to the pollution there. The human cost there is higher than Americans can comprehend.

If government is making it more expensive to raise chickens by requiring people buy a fancier coop, it just means less people raise backyard chickens and then have to rely more on factory eggs. And we know how the chickens are treated in egg factories. 1000x worse and than a cramped prefab.

Sometimes cause and effect is not so simple. Regulations can actually drive out moderate solutions to be replaced by really terrible one. Something to keep in mind when one is trying to save the world.

Actually , most prefabs are 1 or 2 square feet per bird, the minimum often quoted here is 4 sq feet. 10 feet is excessive and this is not something we want the government to give two hoots about. I don't want them to regulate anything to do with my birds, personally.

Agree with both. Yes there is a problem, but regulation is not the solution. (Just one more thing a small business need to check and they may not have that legal capacity for example...)

I like many other solutions the OP has come up with.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

Humans as a whole are a lazy, ignorant species increasingly demanding to be ever more protected from the consequences of their bad choices.


Anyone can spend a few minutes free research - don't even need to buy a book - then quick mental math (use the calculator in your cell phone, if required) to figure out how big those coops are. The can also look at the window locations (drafts), lack of ventilation, weather exposed hinges, and general lack of quality materials and construction methods, and choose for themselves.

Its seems "reasonable" to do so before taking another creature's life in your hands.

But no? Instead we demand that the minimum wage cashier or stocker in a moderately low end farm store is going to be expert in every product in the store - from tractor impliments to electric fences, to medication for a half dozen species, battery powered garden tools, generators, welders, tractor oil, seasonal plants, coops and housing for a handful of species, tarps, fasteners, well pumps...

It is an unreasonable expectation.

Or we get "fits X birds" based on (at best) commercial standards not reflective of the conditions and methods under which most of us raise our birds. Perhaps voluntary associations will come into existence which set forth standards people will meet in order to advertise a "seal of approval". Or you can agitate for the Gov't setting standards (State or Federal) and tasking some agency (or "private attorneys general") to then enforce it - ilke California setting swine keeping standards.

Doesn't make the owners any smarter or better educated, just substitutes one "expert" for another. At least with the current disclosures, and a floor display (or again, a bit of mental math) the claims are so obviously overstated a reasonably educated person **SHOULD** hit pause and reconsider. Instead, when they find the coop (like the magic beauty cream or the instant hair growth pill) doesn't work, they beg someone else to free them from the consequences of their own decisions.

and once protected, even less likely to invest the time to do a little research before making their next lifestyle choice...

 

[U_Stormcrow]

and yes, I readily recognize that both voluntary industry associations and government agencies are prone to regulatory capture by industry insiders, who tend to use that power not to protect consumers, but rather to protect themselves from competition.

That's the flaw in bigger Gov't. You always need yet bigger Gov't (of "the right people") to protect you from Gov't abuse.

Who decides who are "the right people"?

Oh yes, the voters who couldn't be troubled to check their local zoning and spend a few minutes researching on the internet before making an impulse buy of live animals because "they are cute" and/or "the world is ending".

How's that working out for us???

Sadly, the alternatives have consistently proven themselves to be worse options over any significant multi-generational term.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

[Apologies in advance if the above ends up causing headaches for the Moderators - I think I'm on the right side of the line, and don't think the above will result in a Thread Lock. Its been a long week (already), my frustration w/ "the great unwashed masses" is bleeding thru. I assure you, its nothing personal. I *like* (some) individuals. Its the human collective I'm much less fond of.]

 

[nuthatched]

But no? Instead we demand that the minimum wage cashier or stocker in a moderately low end farm store is going to be expert in every product in the store - from tractor impliments to electric fences, to medication for a half dozen species, battery powered garden tools, generators, welders, tractor oil, seasonal plants, coops and housing for a handful of species, tarps, fasteners, well pumps...

Thank you, I work at a hay and hardware so my coworkers and I are absolutely expected by every. Single. customer, to know every detail about everything and it is TEDIOUS. To say the least. And then they get upset that we don't know much more than they do about some odd thing....
"What do you mean you don't know about ____?! You sell it! You work here!"

I told you three times we don't have you want, that means you get out of the store, not interrogate me regarding pellet stove ventilation in an rv.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

Some day when I'm in a better mood, maybe I'll set out the counter argument for why, in the modern world, widespread consumer ignorance is *rational*.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

Thank you, I work at a hay and hardware so my coworkers and I are absolutely expected by every. Single. customer, to know every detail about everything and it is TEDIOUS. To say the least. And then they get upset that we don't know much more than they do about some odd thing....
"What do you mean you don't know about ____?! You sell it! You work here!"

I told you three times we don't have you want, that means you get out of the store, not interrogate me regarding pellet stove ventilation in an rv.

I spent many years in retail, responsible for knowing about a half million SKUs in Hunting, Fishing, Camping, Marine (boats), Watersports (water skiing, scuba, snorkling), plus knives, firearms, ammunition, boots, and some limited apparel.

I do my best not to be to consumer I used to despise from the other side of the counter.

 

[BDutch]

In my country there are rules and regulations on labels for eggs in the supermarket. In short the standard cheap eggs are inside free ranging with 7 chickens on 1 m2 /10 sqft. The organic eggs come from chickens who have 6 chickens on 1 m2/10 sqft + each hen has 4m2 /40 sqft outside run space

Where I live its never too cold to go outside, but we do have cases of bird flu every winter. So its forbidden to free range outside now without a roof and fences. So the government has decided that organic eggs/ chickens do not have to meet the standard to be labelled organic during this period

The manufacturers in the food industry often buy eggs from other countries where rules and regulations are worse or non existent to be able to sell cheaper ultra processed food.

Imho it would be ridiculous to regulate the welfare of backyard chickens by law and not do something about the welfare of chickens in the industry.

 

[BDutch]

People who start to keep backyard chickens are often ignorant in whats required to have healthy and happy chickens. So was I. And if I had to buy a buy a coop or a coop-run combination with at least 1m2/ 10 sqft for each chick I probably wouldn’t have started having chickens at all.

Previously I had bought a small prefab chicken coop with run for my two older rabbits who I had to relocate. After they died I wanted to keep chickens but looking at the coop/space it was obvious that it was too small for normal sized chickens and even too small for normal sized bantams.

That’s why I bought 4 Dutch bantams who could fit in this ridiculously small coop. Figured out when the chicks became 3 full grown pullets and 1 cockerel, that the attached run was way too small. Even for my 4 tiny 500 gram /1 pound chickens. So I build a run. … an extension… got more chickens .. build another run … Reading about requirements on space, ventilation, etc. mainly came after buying the chicks.

I believe many backyard chickens keepers go through a period of learning like I did. And yes, unfortunately the prefabs are not okay: not big enough, not enough ventilation, roost too low etc. But with a wooden coop it’s not difficult to make some alterations. Many people decide to build a better coop after a year of struggling and keep the prefab for broodies , new chicks or sick hens.

Honesty of the manufactures/shops would be great. But who expects honesty of a large firm nowadays?

One more thing. As Shad stated before. It highly depends on your climate and circumstances how big the coop should be. Truly free range chickens in a mild climate don’t need much coop space. A safe shelter with adequate roost space should do.
On the other hand, if you have a difficult climate with many predators, you do need a large coop and a large run too if you can’t supervise the whole day.

There just isn’t a one fits all solution.
Glad I had the opportunity to learn and still enjoy having chickens after 10 years.

 

[Squawkers]

Many people decide to build a better coop after a year of struggling and keep the prefab for broodies , new chicks or sick hens.

Me exactly! But I never wanted one of those awful prefab coops, my mother insisted because she didn’t want anything ugly. I lost the battle and spent the next several years HATING THAT COOP. I absolutely despised it. When I finally got a new coop I did not keep the prefab for broodies, I took a sledgehammer to it and took out all my hatred and despise for that awful thing. Best day of my life.