Clostridium in 3 day old chicks?

[Susan Skylark]

My first hatch (now 4 weeks old) I lost one chick out of six on day 3, he was a little small and wasn’t growing like the others and was depressed for half a day before I found him dead. The others were fine, no blood or diarrhea, etc, just dead. I figured it was a congenital defect or failure to thrive and wasn’t too concerned.

My second batch is 3 days old, most of them are growing like gangbusters but again I have several small, depressed chicks. One was colicky for at least 24 hours (rolling over to peck at his vent/flank) but there are no other symptoms in any of them besides depression and rough down. Two died this afternoon and I euthanized a third. I necropsied all three. All birds were eating, the colicky chick had a rather gassy cecum, one had dark red coloration on various serosal surfaces (can be a sign of sepsis), no sign of bleeding, diarrhea, neurological signs, or respiratory issues.

I’m no expert in birds, but in mammals this would either be a really nasty virus, a virulent strain of something like E. coli, or a clostridium. I can’t do much about the former two but I can at least treat the rest of the hatch for clostridium. I disinfected the brooder and accessories and medicated the water with amoxicillin and individually dosed the two remaining iffy chicks.

Has anybody else dealt with ulcerative colitis in baby quail or do you have any ideas for a differential diagnosis? Also, is this something I’ll have to deal with in subsequent hatches even though the young birds have no contact with the older birds (clostridium can be difficult to eradicate from the environment, think tetanus and botulism). Thanks!

 

[Huntmaster]

My first hatch (now 4 weeks old) I lost one chick out of six on day 3, he was a little small and wasn’t growing like the others and was depressed for half a day before I found him dead. The others were fine, no blood or diarrhea, etc, just dead. I figured it was a congenital defect or failure to thrive and wasn’t too concerned.

My second batch is 3 days old, most of them are growing like gangbusters but again I have several small, depressed chicks. One was colicky for at least 24 hours (rolling over to peck at his vent/flank) but there are no other symptoms in any of them besides depression and rough down. Two died this afternoon and I euthanized a third. I necropsied all three. All birds were eating, the colicky chick had a rather gassy cecum, one had dark red coloration on various serosal surfaces (can be a sign of sepsis), no sign of bleeding, diarrhea, neurological signs, or respiratory issues.

I’m no expert in birds, but in mammals this would either be a really nasty virus, a virulent strain of something like E. coli, or a clostridium. I can’t do much about the former two but I can at least treat the rest of the hatch for clostridium. I disinfected the brooder and accessories and medicated the water with amoxicillin and individually dosed the two remaining iffy chicks.

Has anybody else dealt with ulcerative colitis in baby quail or do you have any ideas for a differential diagnosis? Also, is this something I’ll have to deal with in subsequent hatches even though the young birds have no contact with the older birds (clostridium can be difficult to eradicate from the environment, think tetanus and botulism). Thanks!

What do you feed your hatchlings?

 

[Susan Skylark]

Now 30 percent game bird starter, purina brand, but used up a small bag of something off Amazon I used for the first hatch until I could locate feed locally. had been grinding it the first few days which might be a risk factor. Also using an open waterer (small opening to prevent drowning) the first 48 hours which makes a complete mess, I didn’t think they could figure out a water bottle immediately but I think I’ll give it a try next hatch. Pine shavings after 48 hours, paper towels initially, heat lamp on one end of brooder for heat gradient.

 

[Susan Skylark]

Update: one iffy chick doing a little better, still not out of the woods, euthanized the other. Everybody else happy and healthy.

 

[Nabiki]

Infection of any sort is unusual in newly hatched chicks unless the incubator wasn't clean. If the brooder isn't clean, there is also risk, but otherwise it is more likely to be either the parent stock or something in the environment.

Is there any chance of mold in the feed?

 

[Susan Skylark]

Feed is dry and well away from water, and water is in a bottle, dry bedding and fresh feed are added a couple times a day. Both incubator and brooder and accessories were cleaned, disinfected, and allowed to air dry between batches. Chicks are 72 hours old, meaning they are probably exposed in the incubator and those that don’t fight it off spend the energy that should go into rapid growth in an immune response (all affected chicks are runty, little pin feather growth, and thin/wasted at necropsy), eventually they stop eating, depression sets in, they go almost catatonic, and die (either from lack of energy or bacterial toxin). Clostridium is a spore former that is ubiquitous in soil, feces, and gut flora, it is very difficult to eradicate from the environment and unwashed quail eggs would be a great fomite and the heat and humidity of lockdown are ideal conditions to activate it while pecking at everything is a good way to ingest it. It also tends to kill swiftly with very few symptoms save a general malaise. It can also present in mammalian neonates within a couple days of birth whereas coccidia takes a week to 10 days. Something like a virulent E. Coli cannot be ruled out, but I would expect more sick birds, rather than just some dead, which is more consistent with clostridium which tends to kill sporadically while not causing illness in the majority of the herd. I’d love to think it was genetic or nutritional but 20 percent death loss in two genetically separate hatches isn’t likely, and nutritional issues should affect more birds or stunt growth across the board but that isn’t a problem, the same with toxins. I’d love to send this off to a lab for a final diagnosis but I don’t want to spend the money and the results are usually inconclusive and don’t affect treatment or outcome. I’ll do a thorough bleaching or three of everything (or replace it entirely) before my next hatch and just in case medicate the water for the first week, keep the brooder dry by using a water bottle immediately (and limit fecal exposure from contaminated water), and try not to grind the feed so fine. I’d also vaccinate but obviously that isn’t an option.

 

[Susan Skylark]

The dark striped guy in the middle is my surviving iffy chick, you can see several other clutch mates that all hatched within 36 hours start to finish, they are 3-4 times his size, even the last to hatch is twice his size. Still a little draggy but alive, eating and not comatose, still not guaranteed to survive (and may be stunted or a carrier so won’t keep for breeding) but at this point not dead is a good thing, no more sick birds either.

 

[007Sean]

View attachment 3825865
The dark striped guy in the middle is my surviving iffy chick, you can see several other clutch mates that all hatched within 36 hours start to finish, they are 3-4 times his size, even the last to hatch is twice his size. Still a little draggy but alive, eating and not comatose, still not guaranteed to survive (and may be stunted or a carrier so won’t keep for breeding) but at this point not dead is a good thing, no more sick birds either.

From this photo, it looks like that crumbles isn't fine enough? Looks pretty coarse, to me!

 

[Susan Skylark]

These are 5 day old chicks in the photo, everybody else has doubled or tripled in size including a runt and a wry neck and the last chick to hatch. The sick chicks just don’t grow, little muscle and no body fat on necropsy, food in the gi tract but they just don’t have anything left. I was finely grinding feed the first three days but that is actually a risk factor for clostridium, may do it by hand rather than in a blender: smaller but not ultra fine. This little guy survived another day but was just too weak to make it, happily nobody else is sick!

 

[MarionIN4Chickens]

These are 5 day old chicks in the photo, everybody else has doubled or tripled in size including a runt and a wry neck and the last chick to hatch. The sick chicks just don’t grow, little muscle and no body fat on necropsy, food in the gi tract but they just don’t have anything left. I was finely grinding feed the first three days but that is actually a risk factor for clostridium, may do it by hand rather than in a blender: smaller but not ultra fine. This little guy survived another day but was just too weak to make it, happily nobody else is sick!

Did you ever figure out what it was? I have 15 babies that are a week and a half old. One has scissor beak and another still looks maybe three days old. The other 14 including the one with scissor beak are growing and like 5 times as big as him. They’re all getting adult feathers but this one little guy even though he’s acting normal still looks like he did at 3 or 4 days old. No pin feathers no bigger nothing. I have been waiting for him to suddenly catch up since he isn’t acting any different than the others