2 serama hens - POX or CANKER? WARNING-graphic pics

[4kidZ]

EDIT-THE FIRST 2 PICS ARE MY BUFF "BLONDIE" and the REST ARE MY MILLE FLEUR "Cleo".

I have a mille fleur (Cleo) that is nearly a year old and literally within 2 days, went from having a dried lump on the side of her beak, to having a hard yellow, fungus-like substance in her mouth. She cannot close her mouth all the way and it appears to be painful. I tried to pick some out w/ a q-tip that had bentadine on it, and it will NOT budge.

I have only had dry pox, and am practically an expert on it! But now have what I FIRST suspected was canker, but since the 3 other birds in Cleo's pen (incl 2 roos that had dry pox nearly a year ago) show NO symptoms, I thought maybe dry pox, turned to wet pox? She had the little bump about 2 1/2 days ago, I saw that she had the yellow in there this morning and I SWEAR the yellow gunk inside her mouth has doubled in size since I left this morning.

Now, I ALSO have a little buff serama (Blondie) who was in a cage next to Cleo up until about 3 weeks ago, when she had sniffles. When I noticed her sniffles and a few sneezes, I took her and her boy out and put them in a cage on the other side of the yard. She has NO dry spots, but NOW she has the fungus in her mouth, NO SNIFFLES, and her eyes are REALLY sunken in. She also has some feather loss...but that could be molting as it is that time of year for them. They both are eating, although Cleo is having a hard time at it. They are both drinking, but now I find that Cleo hasn't really been able to ... I hung a rabbit waterer in their quarantine pet carrier, and now Cleo is getting some water. Thank goodness I used rabbit waterers when they were chicks, or poor Cleo would have a heck of a time....

I have looked through several BYC posts and can't really find the answer to what differences to look for. So, I took pics...and GLENDA HAYWOOD...if you are out there, can you tell me what to look for, in the difference?










FORGOT TO MENTION. I have 2 meds here that I have never had to use yet. Metronidazole tablets, 500 mg and Ketoconazole tablets USP 200 mg. Will either of those help if it's canker?

Thank you

~4kidZ
(Fluffy Butts Farm)

 

[chickenlady]

That is nasty looking. Great pics though!! Can you see past that large lump into the throat? i would say this is canker, however, I'm not sure what the sore on the outside of the mouth is. Metronidazole is the name for Flagyl which is the treatment for canker. Ketoconazole is also a treatment for canker but is supposed to be more toxic and harder on the bird. I would start immediately(like tonight) on the metronidazole. Looks like this bird is not going to be able to breath in a day. The growth will grow quickly and will kill quickly. Have you noticed the bird drinking alot more than normal? If it is canker, you dont want to pull that yellow blob off, it will cause severe bleeding. But if it is just infectious material, you need to pull it off. You need to be careful, so I would start her on penicillin (for infection) and the metronidazole(for canker). They can be used together and it is usually recommended this way only because canker can lead to a respiratory problem as well. The penicillin will also help if it is just an infection. In a couple days after starting the treatment, the yellow gook should start to dry up and will fall off itself. Just make sure she is still eating and drinking. Offer her some ACV in the water or use a small amount of bleach in the water. Clean the waterer daily and give fresh water daily. You should use the metronidazole for min of 15 days, even if it clears up. Best of luck.


edited to add: I believe pox are white.

 

[4kidZ]

Quote:
Thanks chickenlady...I can see passed the lump and it appears to be surprisingly clear. I have not noticed her drinking more. Just noticed her TRYING to drink and she can't ... except for the few drops she gets from the rabbit waterer. I didn't not notice a higher intake of water before this all went down, either.

I will start on the metro after I write this. I have doxycycline or tylan 50...can I use those instead of penicillin?

Yeah, I can't get that stuff off...it really is a part of her mouth, now. And the area between the bump and the fungus stuff looks like it's literally EATING away at her beak...is this part of it?

I have both of the girls together... should I do the same for Blondie?

Thanks again ... I think I've wore out my refresh button waiting for SOMEONE to respond

~4kidZ
~FBF~

 

[4kidZ]

OOPS - 500mg is the metro...should I give them a full 500 or less dosage?

 

[chickenlady]

Yes treat both girls. No, dont give the tylan or the doxy, the doxy can make matters worse if it is canker. It must be penicillin in case it is just an infection. Just try and get some tomorrow. TSC carries it in the refrigerator in the horse/poultry area.

500 mg of the metronidazole is way too much. Generally you would give a 250 mg tablet for an 8 pound bird. Try to at least break it in half for tonights treatment and maybe in thirds for the remaining treatments.

 

[Matt A NC]

This time last year I was dealing with the same thing, at least it looked the same. It was wet form of fowl pox. Betadine it everyday to help dry it a little faster. Antibiotics can help with secondary infection, but will not treat pox. You need to get that one off the side her beak. If left too long it can permantly deform her beak. Use a fingernail or twizzer to peal it off. It will leave a raw sore, but that will heal faster then leaving it as is.

Wet Pox moves slowly and will keep right on going. Some birds will have bad symptoms and others may not show much of anything. The only way I managed to stop it was to administer the vaccine. I lost 4 up to that point. The lesions kept spreading back till it covered the top of their trachea. 1 had her throat so full that she couldn't take in even water. None actually died from it, but once it got to certain point we put them down instead of sufficating. The hand full of others that had it recovered. Takes 2-3 weeks to run it's corse in each infected bird.

I gave the vaccine back in January and I haven't had a case since. Chicks that hatched this year were never vaccinated and NEVER got sick, so I hoping it is gone for good.

Matt

 

[4kidZ]

Quote:
OK...the pills are HORSE pills. This is the first time I've opened the bottle. I got about 175mg in each of them. In the process of giving Blondie's, her fungus was 1/2 hanging there, so I tugged at it a little w/ my fingernail and it POPPED off...I went to grab it out of her mouth and she tweaked and swallowed it!! BTW, she STINKS like infection...like a coryoza (sp?) smell...almost a yeasty smell.

I can't smell it on Cleo....and even though Cleo's mouth won't close and she looks worse, Blondie ACTS worse. She looks a hot mess, too

Poor little things. Am keeping their crate in here tonight cuz it's a bit chilly outside. I just hope they make it through the night. That sucker in Cleo's mouth has grown more since I took the pics.

 

[redhen]

I was just going to say..could you pull them off? (the lesions).. maybe not.. UGH! poor things! Good luck!

 

[4kidZ]

Quote:
I tried to pull Cleo's off earlier and it will NOT BUDGE. It's almost like it's grown INTO her mouth along with growing ON it...does that make sense? Same w/ the big bump on the side of her beak. It is IN her face...not just on it. There is no way to get it off w/ out cutting it out. And, I can't do that...

 

[4kidZ]

Quote:
See...this is my only concern that it ISN'T pox. doesn't WET start out DRY? Neither birds have had ANY pox (I had 4 seramas w/ dry pox last year, too) that I could detect, anywhere. Except that one big one on the side of Cleo's mouth. Which didn't start out "wartie" looking like a dry pox...