Developing My Own Breed Of Large Gamefowl For Free Range Survival (Junglefowl x Liege)

[Florida Bullfrog]

I have a question. I have have a asil thai mix stag (8 weeks). He will run from other chicks but if I put them in his pen he whoops up on em'. Is he normal?

Sounds normal to me.

A couple of points about game drive I've learned from an old time cocker I trust and what I've confirmed with my own eyes is that 1) game drive is connected to sexual maturity, therefore if chicks show aggression its something other than game drive manifesting and 2) the full measure of a rooster's game drive cannot be ascertained until the rooster is fully mature, which for most breeds and lines is around the 2 year old mark. A rooster that might not run from a fight at 2 years old may run from one if he's younger. Which makes biological sense as it should really only be the very mature cocks that are throwing themselves at each other for singular mating rights. A young stag isn't the best male for a hen to mate with so he shouldn't be the one putting it all on the line to get his genetics out there.

Although an aggressive chick doesn't necessarily directly connect to having a strong game drive as an adult, it may mean he has a domineering personality which can go hand in hand with a strong game drive. And to the extent that personality can be a genetic trait, it would be possible to expect an entire line or breed to tend towards a particular personality depending on how tightly they're bred.

My Wahl aseel broodcock was aggressive as a chick, then became passive and submissive as a free range stag under a Cracker brood cock, then became a red-hot game rooster after he got over a year old and re-cooped.

Indo has always been domineering since chickhood. As a young stag he was quick to fight a mature cock but would run after tasting long spurs, but then would run back into the brood cock get more a few minutes later. Now as a bull stag I think he'd kill himself against a long-spurred brood cock. Once his spurs fill out I think nothing will stand against him.

 

[Bigtom Turkey]

Mine seems to be like your indo. He loves to spar with his (much) smaller sister. And will fight with my OEGB stag. He will pick at the stag till he gets pecked and then run... and then run right around and grab him again. Eventually I separated them because he was getting pecked pretty hard and was no longer fighting back.

 

[Florida Bullfrog]

Point is, aggressive personality and (quite separate) game drive can be fluid things that ebb and flow depending on the age of the bird as well as what's going on in the flock social structure. A bird may not have it... until one day it does. I had seriously misjudged my Crackers for the first year because the stags got along. Then all of a sudden they didn't and I lost one of my best stags that had I known in advance they actually had a game drive, I would have separated. I think its a good rule of thumb to presume that if a chicken has game in its background, assume there's some degree of game drive lurking under the surface.

I'm learning more and more that quick judgements can't be made about chickens, for whatever trait one is looking for, until some time has passed. I used to cull from chicks (and still do if I see obvious defects). But some traits, whether it be physical or personality traits, aren't apparent for some time.

 

[MysteryChicken]

There's another member who has asil and liege fighter project going on that could answer that question, I don't remember who it was, maybe @MysteryChicken ?

I have Malays.

I want to get Liege Fighters, but can't yet.


I know those breeds/mix have a very Gamey disposition though. So, that maybe what's going on. He may have to be housed separately from the others.

 

[Tonyroo]

Sorry can't remember who owns to what lately. Just trying to be helpful.

 

[Bigtom Turkey]

He is fine with everybody now. But I am thinking he is going to be a force to recon with when he's older.

 

[Florida Bullfrog]

Updated pics of Indo. I have a picture of him up in the 2023 Calendar contest. He's still got a lot of maturing to do and yet he already impresses me.

As to the Liege project, I've let Indo breed back to his Liege mother and aunt and I have 22 eggs from those pairing set in the incubator. Although he's still just a bull stag, they're fully mature hens at or near 2 years old. I'm hoping for several healthy chicks that will do well, where the initial crossing of Aseel to Liege only netted me 2 adult birds out of nearly 2 dozen chicks produced.

The large Cracker project is advancing more slowly. The Cracker x "Blueface" stag is doing well free range. I have several Cracker x Blueface chicks coming up from Hei Hei and the second Blueface hen, where the stag is of Number 1 and the blue-egg-laying "Blueface" hen. I do find it interesting, coincidence or not, that the hen that lays the blue eggs actually has a blue face and she had imparted that to the stag. Not a good pic of the stag, his feathers are blowing in the wind. But it shows the blueish tint his face has.

I did lose one of the Cracker x American cross chicks to a snake this past week:

 

[Bigtom Turkey]

Indo looks great! He is getting his spurs in too.

 

[Appalachian homestead]

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Updated pics of Indo. I have a picture of him up in the 2023 Calendar contest. He's still got a lot of maturing to do and yet he already impresses me.

As to the Liege project, I've let Indo breed back to his Liege mother and aunt and I have 22 eggs from those pairing set in the incubator. Although he's still just a bull stag, they're fully mature hens at or near 2 years old. I'm hoping for several healthy chicks that will do well, where the initial crossing of Aseel to Liege only netted me 2 adult birds out of nearly 2 dozen chicks produced.

The large Cracker project is advancing more slowly. The Cracker x "Blueface" stag is doing well free range. I have several Cracker x Blueface chicks coming up from Hei Hei and the second Blueface hen, where the stag is of Number 1 and the blue-egg-laying "Blueface" hen. I do find it interesting, coincidence or not, that the hen that lays the blue eggs actually has a blue face and she had imparted that to the stag. Not a good pic of the stag, his feathers are blowing in the wind. But it shows the blueish tint his face has.

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I did lose one of the Cracker x American cross chicks to a snake this past week:

I can see the blue tint to the face on stag , but i believe the original blueface were more of a pale face, like they were sickly. In fact, I read an article that said they sent them off for testing to see what was wrong with them. The reason they are called blueface is the pale face cock's face turned blue when he sparred.

 

[Florida Bullfrog]

I can see the blue tint to the face on stag , but i believe the original blueface were more of a pale face, like they were sickly. In fact, I read an article that said they sent them off for testing to see what was wrong with them. The reason they are called blueface is the pale face cock's face turned blue when he sparred.

Correct, that is one of the stories that goes along with the Blueface line of American games. I don’t claim that any of these birds are actually Blueface. I am of the opinion no one alive today knowingly has Sweater McGinnis’ actual Blueface games. He kept multiple lines that he all called “Blueface” to throw off thieves and unscrupulous farmers that secretly sold his stags behind his back. McGinnis died unexpectedly and I don’t believe anyone knew where his walk was where he kept the “real” Blueface. I believe all so called Blueface today are either of the decoy lines or of completely unrelated gamefowl that just happen to have a junglefowl look. It seems that any straight combed gamefowl that has junglefowl traits is called a Blueface. I’m sure I could have got away with holding my Crackers out to be a backwater inbred sub-strain of Blueface if I would have been so inclined.

I only point out the irony that the mother of that stag is labeled as a BF but lays blue eggs (suggesting a distinctly non-American game influence somewhere unless she’s an off mutation), and happens to have a blue tint face she passed on to her son.