Guys? Confusion? 🤔

[lilwanderer]

In theory you could have a heterozygous dominant white bred to another heterozygous dominant white or a recessive white resulting in a black. If they are all related it’s more likely that they are all recessive white or dominant white, if they are not all related this is more likely.

I have 1 roo who came from a total different person than the hens, i highly doubt they're related.
The hens may be related to each other but I don't think that matters since they're hens.
3 of the hens I got as pullets from someone who hatched them from hatching eggs she got an auction
and 1 came from a hatchery and isn't laying yet. She turned out pretty good so i kept her.
Although from what I've been told in the past white cochin bantams are almost always recessive, so if that's true I don't think dominant white is an issue here.

 

[lilwanderer]

He hatched around 2:00 this morning- But I waited until he fluffed up a bit more-
He's actually a blue I think, but that doesn't make sense to me either. He's that ugly duckling, the rest are all white ( some are red as i had red cochin eggs in there too)
Cute little mystery thing:

 

[BlueTheBrahma]

He hatched around 2:00 this morning- But I waited until he fluffed up a bit more-
He's actually a blue I think, but that doesn't make sense to me either. He's that ugly duckling, the rest are all white ( some are red as i had red cochin eggs in there too)
Cute little mystery thing:
View attachment 3735484View attachment 3735485

The red and white were kept separate, yes? Because red cross recessive white could make a black, this chick almost looks blue though, are you sure they are all white and no splashes?

 

[lilwanderer]

The red and white were kept separate, yes? Because red cross recessive white could make a black, this chick almost looks blue though, are you sure they are all white and no splashes?

Yep, they were all separate.
They definitely look all white to me- There's only 3 hens laying in that pen with the roo.
Here's the crew.

And with the reds, at the time these eggs were set only one red hen was laying and her eggs are more brown. My whites lay cream the majority of the time. (I also only set the cream eggs)
So even if she did sneak in one day and lay an eggs, I probably wouldn't have accidentally set that egg regardless.
As for the roo, my white boy isn't fond of him- I swear he'd kill him if he ever got in. .
I also never found the red roo in there area or any potential break in spots.

 

[pipdzipdnreadytogo]

Cute baby! A few questions just for some clarification on things.

You're 100% sure that the egg the chick hatched from definitely came from your pen with your Whites? You said you thought it was from one of your frizzles, but could be wrong about that, so is it possible that it came from another pen entirely?

How long had your White hens been separated from any other roosters besides the White one when you collected these eggs?

White Cochins are usually recessive white, in fact I haven't heard of dominant white showing up in Cochins before, but who knows. This hen particularly catches my eye as possibly dominant white instead of recessive due to the sort of reddish patches she has. I think we discussed this in another thread of yours and you'd said she was just dirty, though, right? I notice in this shot that her beak and what little I can see of her feet look rather pale, however, like they're white instead of yellow. Can you take a closer look at her and see? The rooster's leg in the background also looks suspiciously pale...

 

[lilwanderer]

Cute baby! A few questions just for some clarification on things.

You're 100% sure that the egg the chick hatched from definitely came from your pen with your Whites? You said you thought it was from one of your frizzles, but could be wrong about that, so is it possible that it came from another pen entirely?

How long had your White hens been separated from any other roosters besides the White one when you collected these eggs?

White Cochins are usually recessive white, in fact I haven't heard of dominant white showing up in Cochins before, but who knows. This hen particularly catches my eye as possibly dominant white instead of recessive due to the sort of reddish patches she has. I think we discussed this in another thread of yours and you'd said she was just dirty, though, right? I notice in this shot that her beak and what little I can see of her feet look rather pale, however, like they're white instead of yellow. Can you take a closer look at her and see? The rooster's leg in the background also looks suspiciously pale...

View attachment 3735499

By frizzle I meant my white frizzle cochin girl-
They were separated for a little over a month before i started collecting eggs-
This egg I'm 90% sure is from the white frizzle as at the time her eggs were pointed and a lot a bigger than my other two girls- The other two laid small almost golf ball round eggs.
The frizzle had just recently started laying, though I waited about week (probably more) before collecting her eggs.
(So the smooth girls eggs were being collected before hers)
If the egg isn't hers, the other 10% would go to the smooth girls.
-
Now IF they ended up holding sperm from the rooster they were with weeks back- It would have been my boy Harvey- he was the only other roo they were with.

-
I'm quite sure the white roo has yellow legs, I will check everyone including the girls later today though.

 

[pipdzipdnreadytogo]

By frizzle I meant my white frizzle cochin girl-

Oh, yes, I understood that! I was more asking if you're 100% positive the egg came from that particular pen or if it's possible it could have been from another pen? Is an egg mix-up possible, in other words?

They were separated for a little over a month before i started collecting eggs-

I've heard different estimations for how long hens can retain sperm, from only 10 days to upwards of 6 weeks. A month is pretty standard for clearing hens out, however. I would think that, while not necessarily impossible, it would be pretty unlikely that she retained sperm from the other male in this case. Have you seen the White rooster successfully breeding the hens?

This egg I'm 90% sure is from the white frizzle as at the time her eggs were pointed and a lot a bigger than my other two girls- The other two laid small almost golf ball round eggs.
The frizzle had just recently started laying, though I waited about week (probably more) before collecting her eggs.
(So the smooth girls eggs were being collected before hers)
If the egg isn't hers, the other 10% would go to the smooth girls.
-

So based on this, then, you are 100% positive that the egg is from the pen with the whites? If that is the case, then it's down to either retained sperm or one of your Whites is not recessive white. Maybe she's a very dilute Splash as was mentioned, maybe she's dominant white, or maybe she's some other combination of genes that makes unicolor white.

There is a DNA test specifically for the recessive white gene, c, that Cochins generally have that you could try if you really wanted to get to the bottom of it without spending the time and energy on testcrossing... But it might be more worthwhile to grow out the chick and see if any other clues appear in its feathering later on before spending the money on that.

https://orders.iqbirdtesting.com/product/recessive-white-gene-c-in-chickens-with-blood-sample/
https://orders.iqbirdtesting.com/product/recessive-white-gene-c-in-chickens-with-eggshell-sample/
https://orders.iqbirdtesting.com/product/recessive-white-gene-c-in-chickens-with-feathers-sample/

Now IF they ended up holding sperm from the rooster they were with weeks back- It would have been my boy Harvey- he was the only other roo they were with.
View attachment 3735503
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Since recessive white, as Cochins typically are, could hide anything, it is possible this rooster could have fathered such a chick...

I'm quite sure the white roo has yellow legs, I will check everyone including the girls later today though.

Okay! Pictures can definitely be deceiving of such things, especially with white birds in my experience. I had to ask, though, because sometimes a small trait like that might go unnoticed, and that could indicate that there are other genes at play than what is expected of a pure Cochin.


I think, though, that you may have to let the chick grow and feather out a bit to see if there are any other clues to be had from that before we can give any definite answers on what's going on here.

 

[lilwanderer]

Oh, yes, I understood that! I was more asking if you're 100% positive the egg came from that particular pen or if it's possible it could have been from another pen? Is an egg mix-up possible, in other words?




I've heard different estimations for how long hens can retain sperm, from only 10 days to upwards of 6 weeks. A month is pretty standard for clearing hens out, however. I would think that, while not necessarily impossible, it would be pretty unlikely that she retained sperm from the other male in this case. Have you seen the White rooster successfully breeding the hens?




So based on this, then, you are 100% positive that the egg is from the pen with the whites? If that is the case, then it's down to either retained sperm or one of your Whites is not recessive white. Maybe she's a very dilute Splash as was mentioned, maybe she's dominant white, or maybe she's some other combination of genes that makes unicolor white.

There is a DNA test specifically for the recessive white gene, c, that Cochins generally have that you could try if you really wanted to get to the bottom of it without spending the time and energy on testcrossing... But it might be more worthwhile to grow out the chick and see if any other clues appear in its feathering later on before spending the money on that.

https://orders.iqbirdtesting.com/product/recessive-white-gene-c-in-chickens-with-blood-sample/
https://orders.iqbirdtesting.com/product/recessive-white-gene-c-in-chickens-with-eggshell-sample/
https://orders.iqbirdtesting.com/product/recessive-white-gene-c-in-chickens-with-feathers-sample/




Since recessive white, as Cochins typically are, could hide anything, it is possible this rooster could have fathered such a chick...




Okay! Pictures can definitely be deceiving of such things, especially with white birds in my experience. I had to ask, though, because sometimes a small trait like that might go unnoticed, and that could indicate that there are other genes at play than what is expected of a pure Cochin.


I think, though, that you may have to let the chick grow and feather out a bit to see if there are any other clues to be had from that before we can give any definite answers on what's going on here.

Got the pictures- And found a couple things out they may or may not give some answers-
My bigger smooth hen- She has yellow skin, and no obvious leakage from what I can tell.

Frizzle girl: She also has yellow skin and also no obvious leakage. (She does have some dirty feathers though I think)

Smaller smooth hen: For her I did find an almost fully random red feather when I extended her. wings.
She also has pink rather than yellow skin.

Now the roo: He has yellow skin but I did find two black feathers. (One in his wing and the other in his saddle feathers)

 

[pipdzipdnreadytogo]

Ah, so then I'd suspect then that your rooster is not recessive white after all! So it's likely that this chick did come from the hen you had thought, but since one parent is recessive white and the other one isn't, the chick is not white.

I'm not sure if Splash can have so few marks without those marks being more dilute as well, I have limited experience there. I would expect more of a dull, almost grayish tone in the feathers for a Splash rather than a pure white color like him, so I don't think he's Splash, personally. I do see a tinge of yellow in his saddles and shoulder in the one close up picture, though, that makes me suspect he's just heterozygous dominant white (I/i+, heterozygous because of the black leaking through) with a hint of color leakage. How unusual for a Cochin! Do you know if the person you got him from is working with any other colors?

As for the hen, that is quite unusual as well. Did she come from the same place as the rooster?

 

[lilwanderer]

Ah, so then I'd suspect then that your rooster is not recessive white after all! So it's likely that this chick did come from the hen you had thought, but since one parent is recessive white and the other one isn't, the chick is not white.

I'm not sure if Splash can have so few marks without those marks being more dilute as well, I have limited experience there. I would expect more of a dull, almost grayish tone in the feathers for a Splash rather than a pure white color like him, so I don't think he's Splash, personally. I do see a tinge of yellow in his saddles and shoulder in the one close up picture, though, that makes me suspect he's just heterozygous dominant white (I/i+, heterozygous because of the black leaking through) with a hint of color leakage. How unusual for a Cochin! Do you know if the person you got him from is working with any other colors?

As for the hen, that is quite unusual as well. Did she come from the same place as the rooster?

Nope, total different people.
I've talked to the lady i got the roo from on where she got him, she said she hatched him back in February last year-
She never did tell me who exactly, but she did say most of her cochins she had now she had to drive 3 hours one way for- All I know
-
Also I really do think its the frizzle who might be hiding something now, another egg I swore was from her hatched out with blue just a few minutes ago- This one didn't have the black beak and appears to be more white, I do think this ones gotta be a blue. . The first mystery chick is in the background here.