International Black Copper Marans Thread - Breeding to the SOP

[wrathsfarm]

Thank you, both Betty and Penny laid on Tuesday then again on Wednesday. That’s the most regular they have ever laid so I guess they are getting things sorted out. Betty is laying good sized eggs just over 2 ounces. Penny is still laying small/medium about 1.5-1.6 ounces. I’ll hold onto Betty’s for the incubator and try to come up with a container to hatch in so I don’t confuse them with the hybrids that I’ll be hatching at the same time

Your Marans came from dark eggs. So you might only get 2-3 a week. Being new layers they most likely aren't consistent yet and they might darken up also for you. Most all mine started getting darker not dark right out of the gate.
And I'm doing the same, I'm separating mine at lockdown.

 

[bigsurfwaves]

Hope all you folks are doing well. I took an internet break and was building a whole chicken town. lol. Your fault... All of you! Now I'm growing out a wheaten cockerel and a BCM to determine which way I want to go. Not keeping both. I enjoyed crossing all my Marans to a pretty mottled olive egger rooster with the assistance of a broody speckled Sussex. She didn't know none of the eggs were hers but she was the BEST mama to those OE chicks I just read a bunch of y'alls posts and boy have you been busy too. Kudos.

 

[bigsurfwaves]

I do have a question that chooksman might have to answer.

I have a Blue Splash Marans with dark legs. She lays a decently dark egg though - which has appeal for breeding.

I have a Wheaten Marans that is gorgeous with pink legs. She lays my darkest egg so I obviously want to breed her.

I snagged 2 chicks from a pen of blues that were the darkest and the lightest of the bunch. The splash was pink legged and had potential but it got killed. The blue one is beautiful with copper coming in. First eggs laid are not very dark. Breeding is a maybe for appearance but not egg color.

I just got more wheaten female chicks and a couple males to grow out. They are brooding. I'm excited to have my fist Marans Rooster as a Wheaten! I also have a splash blue looking marans pullet chick with pink feathered legs in the brooder. Can I use that or my blue splash or blue copper to create 'blue wheaten' in 1 or 2 generations?

I also have a golden cuckoo marans hen that is mossy but lays a moderately dark egg. I know I can sex her hatchlings so breeding her has some appeal.

What I noticed in my extended area is that everyone has black coppers but no one has wheatens. NO ONE. So I thought if I could breed some different marans colors that might appeal to people for selling the chicks and hatching eggs. IIt seems everyone has olive Eggers already but none are wheaten. I am always looking for what is different and how to be unique I suppose. Anyway - what are my best marans breeding crosses that you see with my variety? Which should I give to my neighbor who has a BCM rooster? I'd like to try for my own blue wheatens
Thanks all!

 

[BlueTheBrahma]

I do have a question that chooksman might have to answer.

I have a Blue Splash Marans with dark legs. She lays a decently dark egg though - which has appeal for breeding.

I have a Wheaten Marans that is gorgeous with pink legs. She lays my darkest egg so I obviously want to breed her.

I snagged 2 chicks from a pen of blues that were the darkest and the lightest of the bunch. The splash was pink legged and had potential but it got killed. The blue one is beautiful with copper coming in. First eggs laid are not very dark. Breeding is a maybe for appearance but not egg color.

I just got more wheaten female chicks and a couple males to grow out. They are brooding. I'm excited to have my fist Marans Rooster as a Wheaten! I also have a splash blue looking marans pullet chick with pink feathered legs in the brooder. Can I use that or my blue splash or blue copper to create 'blue wheaten' in 1 or 2 generations?

I also have a golden cuckoo marans hen that is mossy but lays a moderately dark egg. I know I can sex her hatchlings so breeding her has some appeal.

What I noticed in my extended area is that everyone has black coppers but no one has wheatens. NO ONE. So I thought if I could breed some different marans colors that might appeal to people for selling the chicks and hatching eggs. IIt seems everyone has olive Eggers already but none are wheaten. I am always looking for what is different and how to be unique I suppose. Anyway - what are my best marans breeding crosses that you see with my variety? Which should I give to my neighbor who has a BCM rooster? I'd like to try for my own blue wheatens
Thanks all!

What are you looking for yourself? Breeding wheaten based birds to birchen based (including BCM) birds will make the birchen pattern scruffy, not nicely concentrated on the neck. (Someone please correct this if it isn’t true all the time.)

BlCM to WM will produce half BCM and half BlCM in the first generation. Crossing these will make a quarter wheatens, and some of these will be blue wheatens. Or you could cross a Blue copper from the first cross back to a wheaten and get half wheatens, half being blue wheaten.

I don’t know if you were actually asking about leg colour, but I’ve included some points in it.

The wheatens have pink legs because they do not code for eumelanin here. Wheaten has the least melanin for all the base patterns (the E locus), so non goes on the legs. Birchen have the most melanin after self colour (aka extended black), so some gets deposited in the legs. (This is not the same as the slate legs gene, which you shouldn’t have in marans.) Splash birds have their eumelanin diluted, so even though they would usually have grey legs they don’t actually produce the grey colour there.

The grey legs are not part of the standard for wheatens, whereas BCMs are allowed to have grey shading.

If you want dark eggs, hatch dark eggs. Or if there is a line that lays pale eggs which you would like to improve, breed them under roosters hatched form dark eggs. Just keep trying to improve over generations like this, it won’t be immediate. You could even find that by mixing the pale egg strains, you randomly get some dark eggs, which you would want to use for breeding in this strain.

I’m not sure if I answer your question, but I hope some of this information is useful. If you send pictures of them I could advise which ones you should keep based on their type.

 

[wrathsfarm]

Hope all you folks are doing well. I took an internet break and was building a whole chicken town. lol. Your fault... All of you! Now I'm growing out a wheaten cockerel and a BCM to determine which way I want to go. Not keeping both. I enjoyed crossing all my Marans to a pretty mottled olive egger rooster with the assistance of a broody speckled Sussex. She didn't know none of the eggs were hers but she was the BEST mama to those OE chicks I just read a bunch of y'alls posts and boy have you been busy too. Kudos.

It's nice to see ya back on and happy all is well in your world.

 

[wrathsfarm]

This is probably an extremely stupid question, but I'm seeing some eggs from Angel that are confusing.
I read the egg turns before exiting the vent. And always comes out fat end first, I believe? Correct me here.
So, can the hen deposit the extra spray on either end or is it always the fat end? Most of my eggs have extra color on the fat end but I get some that are on pointy end in my mind.

Angels get confusing sometimes becomes some are almost uniform all the way around.

1st pic looks fat end up, heavy color. 2nd pic 2/27 egg looks like it's upside down to me. The 2/22 egg is almost uniform all the way around.

 

[bigsurfwaves]

What are you looking for yourself? Breeding wheaten based birds to birchen based (including BCM) birds will make the birchen pattern scruffy, not nicely concentrated on the neck. (Someone please correct this if it isn’t true all the time.)

BlCM to WM will produce half BCM and half BlCM in the first generation. Crossing these will make a quarter wheatens, and some of these will be blue wheatens. Or you could cross a Blue copper from the first cross back to a wheaten and get half wheatens, half being blue wheaten.

I don’t know if you were actually asking about leg colour, but I’ve included some points in it.

The wheatens have pink legs because they do not code for eumelanin here. Wheaten has the least melanin for all the base patterns (the E locus), so non goes on the legs. Birchen have the most melanin after self colour (aka extended black), so some gets deposited in the legs. (This is not the same as the slate legs gene, which you shouldn’t have in marans.) Splash birds have their eumelanin diluted, so even though they would usually have grey legs they don’t actually produce the grey colour there.

The grey legs are not part of the standard for wheatens, whereas BCMs are allowed to have grey shading.

If you want dark eggs, hatch dark eggs. Or if there is a line that lays pale eggs which you would like to improve, breed them under roosters hatched form dark eggs. Just keep trying to improve over generations like this, it won’t be immediate. You could even find that by mixing the pale egg strains, you randomly get some dark eggs, which you would want to use for breeding in this strain.

I’m not sure if I answer your question, but I hope some of this information is useful. If you send pictures of them I could advise which ones you should keep based on their type.

This is probably an extremely stupid question, but I'm seeing some eggs from Angel that are confusing.
I read the egg turns before exiting the vent. And always comes out fat end first, I believe? Correct me here.
So, can the hen deposit the extra spray on either end or is it always the fat end? Most of my eggs have extra color on the fat end but I get some that are on pointy end in my mind.

Angels get confusing sometimes becomes some are almost uniform all the way around.

1st pic looks fat end up, heavy color. 2nd pic 2/27 egg looks like it's upside down to me. The 2/22 egg is almost uniform all the way around.
View attachment 3766922View attachment 3766923

Good question. I have no idea but those eggs are gorgeous. My wheaten has eggs with BIG DARK spots. I am curious now... time to examine.

 

[wrathsfarm]

Most all the eggs I get are darker on the fat end. Hence, the confusion.

 

[BlueTheBrahma]

This is probably an extremely stupid question, but I'm seeing some eggs from Angel that are confusing.
I read the egg turns before exiting the vent. And always comes out fat end first, I believe? Correct me here.
So, can the hen deposit the extra spray on either end or is it always the fat end? Most of my eggs have extra color on the fat end but I get some that are on pointy end in my mind.

Angels get confusing sometimes becomes some are almost uniform all the way around.

1st pic looks fat end up, heavy color. 2nd pic 2/27 egg looks like it's upside down to me. The 2/22 egg is almost uniform all the way around.
View attachment 3766922View attachment 3766923

Most of Chanel’s eggs are darkest at the fat end. I don’t know about the mechanics of it though, maybe it’s because this end is pushing through so rubs against the insides more for pigment to be applied.
That’s just a guess

 

[wrathsfarm]

I'm guessing it won't matter too much if I guess on some when setting them in the incubator because they are laying on their side anyways. Incubator recommends pointy towards center.
In other news Black laid her first egg since I don't know when. She's an F1 and the egg is very similar to Jetts(F0) eggs in shape.
Either way it was a nice surprise today.