new research debunks trad views on nutrition

[ManueB]

Most grazing/browsing animals would very quickly kill themselves given unlimited access to grains and most pet cats and dogs will overeat to obesity given the opportunity.

Is this derived from studies or from your experience?
It hasn't been my experience for my cats, and for the horses I know. But my single experience isn't meaningful.

I don't think there is much food to be found in nature that is as addictive as the stuff humans have invented. Sure, animals can be addicted to sugar, but corn can't be compared to ice cream.
And animals are not submitted to commercials. So I think obesity in humans is as much a sociological problem as a health issue.

Pellets aren't very common for chickens in France, most commercial food are in the form of fine mill. My chickens do pick what they prefer. I have two flocks and the one that free ranges completely leaves out the fine floor, which is basically the soy and supplement, whereas the flock that is contained in a yard tends to eat more of everything although they do pick out wheat and corn pieces first. And they have access 24/24 to their food and they certainly don't spend the whole day eating. But it's just my single experience and I suppose for every single experience someone else will have the opposite.

 

[laboroflove]

well, the less time they get to forage, and the less variety they encounter when they get to forage, the more responsibility you have to ensure they get access to all they need. I completely understand why this is scary for you (according to your previous post), and why most people choose a so-called balanced feed in the belief that that will meet all their birds' needs. Cereal grains on their own don't have all they need, but do have most of what they need, and if you add some peas you're a long way there. Both are more nutritious if fermented lightly. Access to grass, and whatever weeds grow in it there, is good for them, unless you spray chemicals on the grass.

Really it isn't rocket science, and all the fancy calculations on limiting amino acids are just to find the least possible amounts you can get away with, which might be what a commercial producer wants but isn't what most of us want. Make sure they get variety, and some protein in animal, insect or fish form, and let their instincts be your guide. There are lots of resources to help you. Spector's advice when contemplating whether something you're thinking of eating (or feeding) is a UPF or not is to look at the list of ingredients. The fewer the better, and ideally they'll be things you would find in a domestic kitchen rather than a chemistry laboratory.

We will be adding grass clippings spring summer and fall, and during the winter we do offer them alfalfa hay to scratch around in. Would that suffice? I am also ordering some meal worms for us to raise ourselves so they get them fresh and not processed. My kids love to dig up some grubs and earthworms for them to eat as well. They collect in masses wherever we put round bales. When the bales are mostly gone the kids start digging. My two year old daughter loves to give the chickens their “treats”.

Peas I can start adding. What about the vitamins and minerals? Or would that come with the grass/hay/insects?

 

[Geena]

Is this derived from studies or from your experience?
It hasn't been my experience for my cats, and for the horses I know. But my single experience isn't meaningful.

I can go dig up some studies but it's a very well known fact that those animals will colic or bloat and die from eating too much grain.

 

[Painted Calls]

I can go dig up some studies but it's a very well known fact that those animals will colic or bloat and die from eating too much grain.

Absolutely. Cattle break down things more easily due to their digestive system. I don't worry about them as much. Horses however will kill themselves on grain if given the opportunity. Every time.

*steers thread back on track*

 

[Perris]

We will be adding grass clippings spring summer and fall, and during the winter we do offer them alfalfa hay to scratch around in. Would that suffice? I am also ordering some meal worms for us to raise ourselves so they get them fresh and not processed. My kids love to dig up some grubs and earthworms for them to eat as well. They collect in masses wherever we put round bales. When the bales are mostly gone the kids start digging. My two year old daughter loves to give the chickens their “treats”.

Peas I can start adding. What about the vitamins and minerals? Or would that come with the grass/hay/insects?

you might find this sort of resource, from an agricultural research station before commercial pelleted feeds took over the market, very useful
https://www.gov.mb.ca/agriculture/l...ltry/poultry-rations-and-feeding-methods.html

 

[U_Stormcrow]

We will be adding grass clippings spring summer and fall, and during the winter we do offer them alfalfa hay to scratch around in. Would that suffice? I am also ordering some meal worms for us to raise ourselves so they get them fresh and not processed. My kids love to dig up some grubs and earthworms for them to eat as well. They collect in masses wherever we put round bales. When the bales are mostly gone the kids start digging. My two year old daughter loves to give the chickens their “treats”.

Peas I can start adding. What about the vitamins and minerals? Or would that come with the grass/hay/insects?

No.

I'm on my cell phone right now, can't do a long response, but the short answer is no.

If you want to add grass clippings as entertainment, fine. But what you describe is not a meaningful part of a balanced diet.

 

[laboroflove]

No.

I'm on my cell phone right now, can't do a long response, but the short answer is no.

If you want to add grass clippings as entertainment, fine. But what you describe is not a meaningful part of a balanced diet.

These things in conjunction with a whole grain feed aren’t good enough? I’m confused then. I am not grasping something. I thought I would be giving them what they would otherwise be getting free roaming.

I read through an article mentioned above. Good info in there. I saved it so I can go back and study it when I have more time.

 

[Huntmaster]

I read through an article mentioned above. Good info in there. I saved it so I can go back and study it when I have more time.

If it was the last article posted it was from 1940s and states this at bottom.This factsheet is produced as a historical document describing how poultry flocks were managed in the 1940's. Not all practices described would be recommended today (January 2006). and that was stated 17 18 years ago so we have come a long way in poultry feed since then as well as the current/hybrid chicken needs have changed also.

 

[Folly's place]

Chickens and 'pasture': there's no uniform standard here! What grows on my property, seasonally, isn't the same as yours, even a mile down the road. And there's not a lot for my birds when there's snow and frozen ground!
Also, birds who produce 200+ eggs each year aren't the same as birds producing less than 100, some much less.
Some individuals will manage a lot better than others if offered whole grains, while other individuals will pig out on a couple of ingredients and not do as well.
Horses are looking for ways to suicide, and overeating is high on their list! Cattle can bloat in the right circumstances too.
In warm weather our chickens (when they can free range) eat less of their balanced diet. When they are confined, and in winter, there's nothing much else for them.
In many ways a high producing hen is like a serious athlete, who has to eat right, or not do well.
Mary

 

[U_Stormcrow]

These things in conjunction with a whole grain feed aren’t good enough? I’m confused then. I am not grasping something. I thought I would be giving them what they would otherwise be getting free roaming.

I read through an article mentioned above. Good info in there. I saved it so I can go back and study it when I have more time.

The quick, voice to text, answer is that you seem to be thinking of all ingredients as if they were the same. Green growing things generally are not nutrient dense, particularly in protein. That's why grazing animals need to eat a lot of them. But even within green growing things, the nutrition is not evenly distributed. Most of the nutrition in a plant is concentrated in the next generation. That's that's why our feed and feeds for many grazers are generally made with seeds and Grains, not the stems and leaves. Grass clippings are basically high fiber High bulk low nutrition ingredient. Fine for goats and cows and other ruminants. Not nearly so useful for chickens. Completely different digestive system. And that's before getting into discussion of how not all proteins are the same, particularly plant proteins. Ask any healthy vegetarian you might know.