Permanently split or no?

[Magpie2]

Still new to chickens here and looking for some advice.
We’re considering a bachelor flock for our six boys
Different sizes, the little guys leave the big girls alone and (most of) the big guys leave the small girls alone.
We have one Brahma rooster crushing badly on a 1lb bantam hen but he’s just finally hit puberty (Brahmas are much slower to mature it’s crazy) so he’s still learning what works, he likes her a lot so he’s honestly very gentle and seems to be learning quickly that he’s not flexible enough to reach her butt with his so he’s not bothering her as much now. She likes him too but mostly for warm cuddles.

Everyone gets along really nicely (no fights etc) apart from some of the girls getting too much “attention” so I’m wondering if maybe we could just separate them for a while so the girls can get a break. One girl in particular has lost most of her head feathers because she only likes one roo and will struggle if anyone else tries to mount her. She’s the one at the top at the picture, there’s a naked neck at the bottom but she was just born that way.

We’re thinking maybe we could split the coop in half with a mesh and door so we can choose when they’re allowed to mix or something but I’m a little worried that with the girls so close, the boys might actually start fighting. We could just separate the two or three who are actually pulling feathers but it’s hard to know what to do.
One roo was causing trouble when they first got their coop and we had to keep him in a dog cage in the coop for over a month unless he was supervised (he also got private run time with his childhood girlfriend if he hadn’t been out in a while and we couldn’t supervise), he was pulling feathers from anyone he could grab but we didn’t want to give up on him and now he’s a model roo. We used techniques I’ve heard are used for fighting cocks like, you can roam but as soon as you cause trouble, back in the cage for ten or more minutes, and repeat that until it sinks in. It just clicked one day for him and we haven’t needed to do anything since.
We could try something similar but rough mounting and attacking are coming from different places and I’m not sure if they would understand it in the same way.

We try to split anything up if the girl is screaming at whoever jumped on her, but we can only do something when we’re actually around.
One of the mid sized girls has learned how to basically “play dead” so we’ll take her inside because she hates all of them lately (“mid sized” means free game for most of the boys regardless of size). Here she is after “dying” on a car ride from the vet. We thought she was egg bound but it turned out to be an ovary infection. She was refusing water so she ate watermelon for a week, the spoiled thing.

No one is actually dying so I’m hesitant to do anything too big and break some really great bonds many have but at least one hen is miserable when forced to be social and another is missing way too many feathers in an area we can’t protect. Any thoughts?

 

[DobieLover]

Either form a separate bachelor pen for the cockerels and keep just one to become the flock rooster or rehome the extra boys. You have too many for there to be long term peace in a single coop/flock setup and for the pullets to have good feathering. The fact that you have saddles on pullets says it all. They are being overbred.

 

[Magpie2]

Either form a separate bachelor pen for the cockerels and keep just one to become the flock rooster or rehome the extra boys. You have too many for there to be long term peace in a single coop/flock setup and for the pullets to have good feathering. The fact that you have saddles on pullets says it all. They are being overbred.

The world is too cruel to roosters for us to be okay with rehoming any boys.

Apologies if I seemed unconcerned, I was trying to keep things light to encourage conversation. I’m very aware that there is an issue. I’m looking for details on how to approach something like a bachelor flock so I have the best chances to make sure all of the birds are happy.

Can they still be close to hens? Can they even see the hens?
How many hens per rooster? Does it matter that there are very different sizes? Can the resident rooster be swapped with one of the bachelors occasionally? Could I let them join the girls again once they’re few years old and less eager to breed?
Is there a particular age that I need to look out for when roos become aggressive with each other? Will their dynamics change when their spurs fully grow?

A little extra information, we have 14 hens for a total of 20 birds. All but one of the roosters are well socialized and easy for people to handle (the one is just skittish and hard to catch).

 

[Magpie2]

I've rehomed 9 males. Every one went on to be pets and flock leaders.

Glad to hear it. I feel like I would be taking a risk though and it’s not on the table right now

 

[RoostersAreAwesome]

The world is too cruel to roosters for us to be okay with rehoming any boys.

Apologies if I seemed unconcerned, I was trying to keep things light to encourage conversation. I’m very aware that there is an issue. I’m looking for details on how to approach something like a bachelor flock so I have the best chances to make sure all of the birds are happy.

Can they still be close to hens? Can they even see the hens?
How many hens per rooster? Does it matter that there are very different sizes? Can the resident rooster be swapped with one of the bachelors occasionally? Could I let them join the girls again once they’re few years old and less eager to breed?
Is there a particular age that I need to look out for when roos become aggressive with each other? Will their dynamics change when their spurs fully grow?

A little extra information, we have 14 hens for a total of 20 birds. All but one of the roosters are well socialized and easy for people to handle (the one is just skittish and hard to catch).

If I were you, I would set up a separate bachelor coop where they can’t see the hens. However, splitting your coop also works, especially since these boys have been raised together and already get along. As a general rule, roosters fight less without hens.

Though it is certainly possible to have a flock of 14 hens and 6 roosters, it depends entirely on the personalities of the roosters. In your case it doesn’t seem to be working out.

You can swap a bachelor with a flock rooster, but I would be very careful about it. It could lead to fighting within the bachelor pad and over-mating in the mixed flock. You could try to let them join the hens in a few years, but there’s no guarantee that things would be any different.

How many of your roosters are bantams?

 

[RoostersAreAwesome]

Glad to hear it. I feel like I would be taking a risk though and it’s not on the table right now

I totally understand that. Some roosters end up in good homes, many do not. Even in good homes roosters can end up being rehomed once again if they start causing problems, such as not getting along with a new rooster.

 

[Magpie2]

If I were you, I would set up a separate bachelor coop where they can’t see the hens. However, splitting your coop also works, especially since these boys have been raised together and already get along. As a general rule, roosters fight less without hens.

Though it is certainly possible to have a flock of 14 hens and 6 roosters, it depends entirely on the personalities of the roosters. In your case it doesn’t seem to be working out.

You can swap a bachelor with a flock rooster, but I would be very careful about it. It could lead to fighting within the bachelor pad and over-mating in the mixed flock. You could try to let them join the hens in a few years, but there’s no guarantee that things would be any different.

How many of your roosters are bantams?

Thank you so much for the advice!
I have another small question, I know hens slow they’re laying in the winter, but do roosters also breed less?

My I’ve only seen my boys fight a few times and interestingly, a third rooster often jumps in and breaks it up. Is that normal?

The girls are also the same age as the boys so most aren’t laying yet and the boys know it so the layers get most of the attention. Also five mature hens we have are rescues and still growing back their feathers so they don’t live in the coop at the moment. Fingers crossed more hens means less problems.

Initially the boys were really bad at handling the girls but in just a few months they seem to have figured it out and aren’t rough anymore (still head grabbing though). I really noticed it when my Brahma finally hit puberty and after everyone else and started grabbing girls left, right, and centre. Hopefully the trend continues and they keep getting better. I’ll definitely have something in place in case it doesn’t though.

I have one Brahma (he’s the biggest), an Australorp/Ameraucana mix (one of two top roos, the bossy one), a Rock/Ameraucana mix (handsome man with a very silly crow), a Barnevelder (one of the two top roos, the gentle and protective one), an Appenzeller Spitzhauben (he’s a spaz so he gets picked on a little for scaring the others), and finally a bantam Cochin (clever nugget, gets along with everyone, stays out of trouble unless nobody’s looking). So one bantam rooster, also two bantam hens.

 

[RoostersAreAwesome]

Thank you so much for the advice!
I have another small question, I know hens slow they’re laying in the winter, but do roosters also breed less?

My I’ve only seen my boys fight a few times and interestingly, a third rooster often jumps in and breaks it up. Is that normal?

The girls are also the same age as the boys so most aren’t laying yet and the boys know it so the layers get most of the attention. Also five mature hens we have are rescues and still growing back their feathers so they don’t live in the coop at the moment. Fingers crossed more hens means less problems.

Initially the boys were really bad at handling the girls but in just a few months they seem to have figured it out and aren’t rough anymore (still head grabbing though). I really noticed it when my Brahma finally hit puberty and after everyone else and started grabbing girls left, right, and centre. Hopefully the trend continues and they keep getting better. I’ll definitely have something in place in case it doesn’t though.

I have one Brahma (he’s the biggest), an Australorp/Ameraucana mix (one of two top roos, the bossy one), a Rock/Ameraucana mix (handsome man with a very silly crow), a Barnevelder (one of the two top roos, the gentle and protective one), an Appenzeller Spitzhauben (he’s a spaz so he gets picked on a little for scaring the others), and finally a bantam Cochin (clever nugget, gets along with everyone, stays out of trouble unless nobody’s looking). So one bantam rooster, also two bantam hens.

Roosters do tend to be a bit more hormonal during spring/summer than winter. I’ve also seen them break up fights! My best alpha roo kept my bachelor flock very peaceful by stopping fights. They will also break up fights between hens.

I’m glad you’re having less problems now. I’ve seen many examples of “bad” rooster to hen ratios working out fine, including in my own past flocks. I once had four roosters with three hens without problems. However, if a rooster has a “favorite” hen, he may continue to overbreed her despite the circumstances. I had to put a rooster who was very good to most of his hens in a bachelor pad because, despite having enough hens and no other roosters in the flock, he was overbreeding one particular hen.

 

[Magpie2]

Roosters do tend to be a bit more hormonal during spring/summer than winter. I’ve also seen them break up fights! My best alpha roo kept my bachelor flock very peaceful by stopping fights. They will also break up fights between hens.

I’m glad you’re having less problems now. I’ve seen many examples of “bad” rooster to hen ratios working out fine, including in my own past flocks. I once had four roosters with three hens without problems. However, if a rooster has a “favorite” hen, he may continue to overbreed her despite the circumstances. I had to put a rooster who was very good to most of his hens in a bachelor pad because, despite having enough hens and no other roosters in the flock, he was overbreeding one particular hen.

One of my girls may be the favourite but she was also the second to start laying and there’s an age gap between the first two (late December hatch) and the younger ones (late February/early March hatch) who are just now starting to lay. She seemed to be the favourite but there were only two to really pick from and she made a big fuss which got everyone’s attention, she’s actually doing better now that a couple others have started laying, feathers growing back, etc.

The hen with the feather loss on her head is actually very closely bonded with the Barnevelder roo. She’s not very sociable in general but I’ve caught her preening him on occasion and he’s very gentle when he mounts her, no head grabbing, only gentle pecks.

We had a nasty heat wave and the older two have stopped laying for a bit which seems to have made the boys leave them alone for the most part. There’s a wireless thermometer in the coop and cameras that we can check at any time so no worries, it was never hot enough to hurt them.

One issue I’ve had with three or four of the boys is if they see a hen is being mounted, they rush over and have to have their turn. There was even an instance where one roo was so upset at the one mounting the hen that he jumped on top of the other roo! The chickens were stacked three high! I tried to break it up but they toppled before I got to them. Have you seen this behaviour? I feel like they’re fighting for dominance or something because there isn’t a clear alpha rooster.
The Australorp mix and the Barnevelder seem to both be boss for the most part with the Rock mix trying to be top roo when the other two tolerate him and then the clueless giant Brahma hasn’t calmed down enough since hitting puberty to actually fit in a spot yet. The other two are lower in the pecking order and don’t try to be boss.

I’ve considered pinless peepers for the boys who seem to grab at the heads more. Any thoughts on those?

 

[RoostersAreAwesome]

One of my girls may be the favourite but she was also the second to start laying and there’s an age gap between the first two (late December hatch) and the younger ones (late February/early March hatch) who are just now starting to lay. She seemed to be the favourite but there were only two to really pick from and she made a big fuss which got everyone’s attention, she’s actually doing better now that a couple others have started laying, feathers growing back, etc.

The hen with the feather loss on her head is actually very closely bonded with the Barnevelder roo. She’s not very sociable in general but I’ve caught her preening him on occasion and he’s very gentle when he mounts her, no head grabbing, only gentle pecks.

We had a nasty heat wave and the older two have stopped laying for a bit which seems to have made the boys leave them alone for the most part. There’s a wireless thermometer in the coop and cameras that we can check at any time so no worries, it was never hot enough to hurt them.

One issue I’ve had with three or four of the boys is if they see a hen is being mounted, they rush over and have to have their turn. There was even an instance where one roo was so upset at the one mounting the hen that he jumped on top of the other roo! The chickens were stacked three high! I tried to break it up but they toppled before I got to them. Have you seen this behaviour? I feel like they’re fighting for dominance or something because there isn’t a clear alpha rooster.
The Australorp mix and the Barnevelder seem to both be boss for the most part with the Rock mix trying to be top roo when the other two tolerate him and then the clueless giant Brahma hasn’t calmed down enough since hitting puberty to actually fit in a spot yet. The other two are lower in the pecking order and don’t try to be boss.

I’ve considered pinless peepers for the boys who seem to grab at the heads more. Any thoughts on those?

I haven’t seen that particular behavior, but I have seen the top roo pushing the lower ranking ones off a hen. The alpha rooster usually stops other roosters from mating hens in front of him, so I agree that an unclear alpha is part of the problem.

I haven’t personally used pinless peepers, but I have considered using them temporarily for both bully roosters and human aggressive ones. If you do end up using them, definitely update on how it goes.