Sparklee, you are tracking the stripped Buckeye chick to see how, if any, it differentiates itself as an adult in plumage? I am interested in hearing about others experiences with Buckeye chick down color/ markings and adult plumage. I don't want to be dismissive that there is no correlation with chick down and adult plumage (as I stated, others have reported a correlation with Buckeye chick down and corresponding adult plumage), but just that I have not noticed one so far. I simply need more experience in marking my chicks as light or dark, etc. and raising them to adulthood. Most of my effort in marking chicks has to do with their parentage and not their down color or markings. I do notice that through the half dozen plus sets of juvenile feathers they put on after their down, almost every Buckeye chick has the noticeably slate bar in the back. I've found that this does not always translate to a good bar on the adult bird. (reminds me of the ol' "phylogeny recapitulates ontogeny" phrase).
Sparklee: So, when folks cross the RIR into their Buckeyes trying to ... whatever ... which is dominant with the whole Co/Columbian Red/ColumbianDerivative? Based on what you know or understand. In addition, are a lot of Buckeye lines then all over the place with their Co status? Based on what you know or understand. In addition, are a lot of Buckeye lines then all over the place with their Co status? Even just throwing some Db (is it still called Db?) into a Buckeye (if the RIR had it) is a complication I'd rather not have to stare down.
Good Buckeyes should have very little, if any RIR, in them and the good lines do not look in any way, shape or form like a RIR. As to color, today's RIRs are much darker than a Buckeye should be. Also, Buckeyes should have a red glow to their color and not, [comparatively], a dead brown to their color.
Good Buckeyes should have very little, if any RIR, in them and the good lines do not look in any way, shape or form like a RIR. As to color, today's RIRs are much darker than a Buckeye should be. Also, Buckeyes should have a red glow to their color and not, [comparatively], a dead brown to their color.
Tadkerson: Buckeye do have the columbian gene . . . The language cgmccary uses (Co/Columbian Red/ColumbianDerivative) is not congruent with the language used in research manuscripts.
All True. I agree with you. The "derivative" is a bad choice of wording & I apologize for using it. What I am trying to say is that for those of us who breed Buckeyes, we find that the Buckeye does not fit completely and neatly into either of the classical models (i.e. neither explains the Buckeye satisfactorily); the Buckeye shares genes & has genes with / and of both Columbian Red and Black tailed Red but with modifiers. i.e. The Buckeye is neither classic Columbian NOR classic Black-Tailed Red but has genes of both. This explains some of the many nuances incl the red coloring on the black tail feathers I referred to earlier and the slate bar in the back, neither which is explained by the classic Co or clasic Black tailed Red but both which are in the best lines of Buckeyes. You obviously know 100% more about genetics than I do & are an expert. I defer to you on genetics. I am just explaining what I have seen in my breeding which is characteristics of both but not all there in the classic sense. This is the only breed I keep and propagate. I have crossed mine with other breeds to see what turned up. I am not an genetics expert (I only minored in biology in undergrad) but just a hobbyist breeder, that's all. My birds have always won at the shows so I figure I must be doing something right in how I look at my birds, how I read the SOP & which ones I select. There is not one Master breeder of Buckeyes. Nobody knows all there is to know about this breed.
All True. I agree with you. The "derivative" is a bad choice of wording & I apologize for using it. What I am trying to say is that for those of us who breed Buckeyes, we find that the Buckeye does not fit completely and neatly into either of the classical models (i.e. neither explains the Buckeye satisfactorily); the Buckeye shares genes & has genes with / and of both Columbian Red and Black tailed Red but with modifiers. i.e. The Buckeye is neither classic Columbian NOR classic Black-Tailed Red but has genes of both. This explains some of the many nuances incl the red coloring on the black tail feathers I referred to earlier and the slate bar in the back, neither which is explained by the classic Co or clasic Black tailed Red but both which are in the best lines of Buckeyes. You obviously know 100% more about genetics than I do & are an expert. I defer to you on genetics. I am just explaining what I have seen in my breeding which is characteristics of both but not all there in the classic sense. This is the only breed I keep and propagate. I have crossed mine with other breeds to see what turned up. I am not an genetics expert (I only minored in biology in undergrad) but just a hobbyist breeder, that's all. My birds have always won at the shows so I figure I must be doing something right in how I look at my birds, how I read the SOP & which ones I select. There is not one Master breeder of Buckeyes. Nobody knows all there is to know about this breed.
