Why is there no DNA test for color?

[chambe94]

Does anyone know why DNA testing for color isn't available for chickens like it is for other species?

Is it just lack of effort on the part of the industry, or is there something that makes it harder in chickens from a scientific standpoint?

 

[Ridgerunner]

When you ae showing chickens the judge sees what the judge sees. If the color/pattern, conformation, and all the other things meet SOP requirements, the chicken is not disqualified. There are often different ways genetically to make some of the colors. Black may be based on Extended Black. Black may be Birchen with Melanizers. As long as the chicken is black, the judge sees black. White could be based on Dominant White. White may be based on a totally different gene, Recessive White. Some people mix in barring with one of these white genes to get an even whiter white.

All chicken breeds were developed by selective breeding and practically all chicken breeds were created by mixing different breeds. Occasionally you have a mutation but that is really rare. Breeds are almost always created by mixing breeds. Genetically the created breed will carry markers of the original breeds. It would get pretty messy to try to separate the genetics out. Another factor is that you can get a New Hampshire by crossing a Rhode Island Red with a Buff Orpington and using selective breeding if you know what you are doing. You could cross a Rhode Island Red with a Buff Rock and eventually get to a New Hampshire. As long as a flock breeds true for color, pattern, conformation, and everything that the SOP requires for 4 or 5 generations, that is considered a purebred, no matter how you got there.

There is simply no need for genetic testing. What you see is what you get and there are different ways genetically to get there.

 

[chambe94]

I get all that, but the testing would be very helpful in getting there quicker.

If you knew a bird had a recessive gene you were trying to select for or against a DNA test would tell you what genes he carries that you aren't seeing (rather than having to test breed). I'm not talking about parentage verification or breed determination, but ID"s genes.

In horses for example, a $40 test will tell you all the alleles a horse is carrying over 17 different loci.

Something like that for color or egg color would be nice in helping plan breedings easier. Especially because there are some may other modifiers, it can be hard to tell if a bird really has what you are breeding for, or just looks like it. Then when you go on to breed that bird you may never reach the goal you were hoping for because the genes weren't actually there.

It would also help avoid unwanted recessive traits popping up.

Obviously it wouldn't be for everyone, or even every bird in a persons flock, but it would be very useful in some cases.

 

[Ridgerunner]

I think I understand better where you are coming from. As you could tell, I wasn’t sure in that first post. I thought you might be wanting to have to prove a chicken was a purebred for it to be in a show.

Follow the money. I can see in the horse industry that there would be a lot of interest in DNA testing a stallion going to stud. There is a lot of money in the different parts of the horse breeding industry. I could see research being funded. Of those 17 loci, how many involve color?

I can see where DNA testing would be very helpful in selecting which chickens you breed. Those recessives are really a pain to breed out. But who would fund that research? There is a lot of money in the broiler and egg laying industries so they may have done something though probably not on color. I’ve seen posts on here where you can send off a sample from a chick and they will determine if it is male or female. I think that place was in Canada but I don’t have a link. If you could find them and chat with them, they may be able to give you much better insight than I can.

 

[gjensen]

Does anyone know why DNA testing for color isn't available for chickens like it is for other species?

Is it just lack of effort on the part of the industry, or is there something that makes it harder in chickens from a scientific standpoint?

There is little economic incentive to do so.

 

[altballard]

I think I understand better where you are coming from. As you could tell, I wasn’t sure in that first post. I thought you might be wanting to have to prove a chicken was a purebred for it to be in a show.

Follow the money. I can see in the horse industry that there would be a lot of interest in DNA testing a stallion going to stud. There is a lot of money in the different parts of the horse breeding industry. I could see research being funded. Of those 17 loci, how many involve color?

I can see where DNA testing would be very helpful in selecting which chickens you breed. Those recessives are really a pain to breed out. But who would fund that research? There is a lot of money in the broiler and egg laying industries so they may have done something though probably not on color. I’ve seen posts on here where you can send off a sample from a chick and they will determine if it is male or female. I think that place was in Canada but I don’t have a link. If you could find them and chat with them, they may be able to give you much better insight than I can.

Here is a link to a company that does egg color, lavender, sex, & recessive whiteI think....
https://iqbirdtesting.com/chickenbreeders

 

[dheltzel]

Here is a link to a company that does egg color, lavender, sex, & recessive whiteI think....
https://iqbirdtesting.com/chickenbreeders

I have used this company to test for blue egg color when building a flock of Opal Legbars that are homozygous for blue eggs. Pretty happy with them, but the testing is pricy.

I also helped them develop their test for lavender. I sent them samples of all my lavender breeds and was surprised to find that they only detected the lavender gene in the bantam breeds (Cochins and Ameraucanas), none of the large fowl (Legbars, Ameraucanas, Marans). I believe, and am testing this hypothesis now, that there is a 3rd allele of this gene that produces the lavender phenotype, but is different enough biochemically that their test can't detect it.
For anyone that wants details of how I am testing this, you can read about it on my project page: http://welbars.com/index.php/extras/projects/ (3rd project, scroll down)

 

[BGMatt]

I have used this company to test for blue egg color when building a flock of Opal Legbars that are homozygous for blue eggs. Pretty happy with them, but the testing is pricy.

I also helped them develop their test for lavender. I sent them samples of all my lavender breeds and was surprised to find that they only detected the lavender gene in the bantam breeds (Cochins and Ameraucanas), none of the large fowl (Legbars, Ameraucanas, Marans). I believe, and am testing this hypothesis now, that there is a 3rd allele of this gene that produces the lavender phenotype, but is different enough biochemically that their test can't detect it.
For anyone that wants details of how I am testing this, you can read about it on my project page: http://welbars.com/index.php/extras/projects/ (3rd project, scroll down)

This is actually fascinating, I wonder if with careful genetic testing and breeding you could create a self-blue/lavender flock that didn't suffer from the shredding and narrowing of feathers that the variety is so prone to.

 

[altballard]

I have used this company to test for blue egg color when building a flock of Opal Legbars that are homozygous for blue eggs. Pretty happy with them, but the testing is pricy.

I also helped them develop their test for lavender. I sent them samples of all my lavender breeds and was surprised to find that they only detected the lavender gene in the bantam breeds (Cochins and Ameraucanas), none of the large fowl (Legbars, Ameraucanas, Marans). I believe, and am testing this hypothesis now, that there is a 3rd allele of this gene that produces the lavender phenotype, but is different enough biochemically that their test can't detect it.
For anyone that wants details of how I am testing this, you can read about it on my project page: http://welbars.com/index.php/extras/projects/ (3rd project, scroll down)

Very interesting! I have a Lavender Ameraucana Chick coming in August.

 

[dheltzel]

This is actually fascinating, I wonder if with careful genetic testing and breeding you could create a self-blue/lavender flock that didn't suffer from the shredding and narrowing of feathers that the variety is so prone to.

It seems like very little actual genetic facts are known about feather "quality" in general. Hookless (silkied) is a single gene recessive, but even frizzle apparently has modifiers that are somewhat documented, but generally not well understood.
I have seen "shredding" a lot more in large fowl than bantams, which corresponds to what I am presuming are 2 different alleles that give a "lavender" phenotype. But I would not be so quick to declare that as the root of the shredding. I have heard people say they have created lines that do not have the shredding, and also that breeding back to black (or whatever the undiluted type is) reduces shredding. If the shredding is a side effect of the "not lavender, but acts like lavender" gene, then how could an outcross to the undiluted color improve that? It is certainly not switching to the true lavender allele, or is it - since lavender can also hide in a population of black birds.

We are far behind other genomic research with poultry, but progress is being made. I think it is very cool to be involved in what I consider "cutting edge" genetic research. I am just a simple poultry breeder with an interest in genetics, and now I have the opportunity to help understand a possible new allele, that was really there all the time, just misunderstood.