inbreeding/linebreeding

[minister man]

Is it possilbe to have a closed flock of chickens and still keep it mostly outcrossing, instead of inbreeding? if it is possible, what would it look like? I mean as far as managing it?

Thanks

 

[Fred's Hens]

The keepers of pure, heritage lines do not outcross a whole lot. It's risky, as I understand it. What they mostly do is hatch a ton of chicks, out of a single line, and cull, cull, cull.

Line breeding, or breeding within an established line for a dozen generations, is pretty much what they do. Bringing in anything from the outside, just introduces a zillion new variables. Often, what IS brought in is a bird or two from someone else who also has the very same line, but has bred them somewhere else for a dozen generations. Hope that makes sense.

Robert Blosi, a contributor here, discusses this on the heritage RIR thread and on the heritage large fowl thread. I've seen him post this so many, many times.

 

[NYREDS]

By definition a closed flock is one where new blood is not introduced so no, what you propose isn't possible.
As the prior posted stated most [and I'd say more like all] successful breeders line breed. I bred Single Comb Rhode Island Red Bantams for 25 years w/o adding any "new blood". I started with 2 pairs from the same strain, kept careful records & line bred. During that time I did do 2 limited outcrosses but always kept the original line pure & seperated from the outcrossed lines. One of the outcrosswes didn't work at all & all birds were culled. The other had some success & I kept them but never totally replaced the original line with them. Even in the last year the birds continued to lay well & hatch well. Unless you're trying to secure a particular trait there really is no need to stir something else into a good strain of birds. I can't emphasize enough if/when you do outcross do it on a limited basis & keep good records. Never commit the whole line to an outcross as more often than not it leads to disaster.

 

[minister man]

I guess I was thinking that if a person had enough matings that they didn't share a comman bird in 3-4 generations then it would be more likke out crossing. I have read of the dangers of outcrossing with unrelated birds, and unrelated birds are too hard to find around here anyway. NYREDS, do you linebreed by one of those charts? or some other method? This fall I am building a building to house the Exhibition breeders. To keep your birds for 25 years without new blood, how many birds, on average would you have kept at any one time? ( I am thinking about building space here) were they in small matings or flocks?

 

[NYREDS]

I breed father/daughter, mother/son & Uncle/niece, aunt/nephew. I never kept more than 20 birds over for breeding-usually more like 12-15.

 

[minister man]

So, I guess you would have 7-10 pairs of breeders. Have you ever heard that white silkies don't take well to close breeding? A master breeder told me that.

So if you breed a hen and male that produces great offsping, do you keep breeding from that pair over as long as they keep producing great birds? or do you change your breeders every year like the production people?

 

[Oregon Blues]

You can keep lots of separate pens and move the roosters to a new pen once a year. If you start your initial flock with birds from several sources, and keep track of which hens are bred to which roosters, you can end up with birds that are not very closely related. If that is important to you.

 

[minister man]

what is your opinion of a "rolling mating" where you use 2 pens with 8-10 old hens and a couple of cockerals in one pen, and the same number of pullets and the best couple of old males in the other?

 

[Fred's Hens]

During breeding season, we only use 1 rooster per breeding pen. We want to know that specific rooster's traits he passes on and not be confused with having two roosters. Plus, we don't want any competition or posturing between two cocks in breeding season. We give him 3 to as many as 6 hens to service. We have specific goals in these match ups. Taller rooster with shorter hens, by way of example. In other words, we ask ourselves, What is it we wish to accomplish with this particular cross? Just crank out some chicks? Or, are we after something specific?

If all we want to do is crank out barnyard chicks, there's not much entailed. If we want specific match ups for coloration, body shape, etc, then the match ups can be 1 rooster for as few as 2 or 3 hens. Hope that helps.

Next spring, we will be breeding heritage Barred Rocks from one of the finest lines known. This will be a real growing experience for us.

 

[3riverschick]

Minister man,
This little classic carefully explains an even more classic breeding program which has been around
at least 200 years. It works for various species, including poultry. The author is a widely renowned
veteran poultry breeder and APA judge. He was Danne Honour's Uncle's Uncle.
Read the book straight thru. It will make more sense that way because of the style of writing the author uses.
http://archive.org/details/cu31924003158312
Best Regards,
Karen in western PA, USA