Adding Pullets to the Flock

[BonnieBlue]

I have two hens that are 1.5 years old this month. I have a coop that is 15.5 sqft and a run that is 56 sqft. I would like to get two pullets who are approximately 4 months old. I know that the coop is just inches under the 4 sqft recommended per bird, but the run is over the 10 sqft.

I was wanting to get two pullets so that it is 2/2 for old/new and hope that will make blending easier for everyone. Should I wait till the pullets are closer to laying? Or is 4 months old enough?

I don't have any way to keep them seperated. It is going to have to be "ok girls, here are your new little sisters", and hope for the best.

 

[Skyle]

A slightly smaller coop from what recommended it's still ok, you still have a bigger run, which is good.
It's always better to keep the new chickens for few weeks in a space far away from the main coop, to quarantine them and be sure you aren't carrying diseases to your other birds.
If you can't separate them in the main coop/run while introducing them, you could try, at 4 months old they are pretty much the same size as adults, but make sure to have a backup plan if things don't work out and keep a close eye on them.
It might work, it depends a lot on the temperament of your two older hens; I mainly have Brahmas, they are very docile, I could add a new chicken (male or female, of whatever age) and they would tolerate it right away. Other breeds could, instead, kill each other if they aren't introduced properly, even if they are all females.

 

[aart]

I don't have any way to keep them seperated. It is going to have to be "ok girls, here are your new little sisters", and hope for the best.

Huge risk, for a couple reasons, and I'd recommend against it.

Consider biological/medical quarantine:
BYC Medical Quarantine Article


Integration Basics:
It's all about territory and resources(space/food/water).
Existing birds will almost always attack new ones to defend their resources.
Understanding chicken behaviors is essential to integrating new birds into your flock.

Confine new birds within sight but physically segregated from older/existing birds for several weeks, so they can see and get used to each other but not physically interact.

In adjacent runs, spread scratch grains along the dividing mesh, best if mesh is just big enough for birds to stick their head thru, so they get used to eating together.

The more space, the better. Birds will peck to establish dominance, the pecked bird needs space to get away. As long as there's no copious blood drawn and/or new bird is not trapped/pinned down and beaten unmercilessly, let them work it out. Every time you interfere or remove new birds, they'll have to start the pecking order thing all over again.

Multiple feed/water stations. Dominance issues are most often carried out over sustenance, more stations lessens the frequency of that issue.

Places for the new birds to hide 'out of line of sight'(but not a dead end trap) and/or up and away from any bully birds. Roosts, pallets or boards leaned up against walls or up on concrete blocks, old chairs tables, branches, logs, stumps out in the run can really help. Lots of diversion and places to 'hide' instead of bare wide open run.

Good ideas for hiding places:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/a-cluttered-run.1323792/

 

[BonnieBlue]

I have got to figure out a way to partition my run into two spaces. The layout will make it difficult, at best. If I can do that, and wait till warmer weather, I could also put a dog crate in the seperate space to act as a temporary "coop". This is going to take construction, so I need to sit down and make sketches and look at how it can be done.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Should I wait till the pullets are closer to laying? Or is 4 months old enough?

People get so hung up on magic numbers, as if they don't live in a reality world. The 4 x 10 space numbers are guidelines. They are way more than enough room for a lot of people but occasionally you can run into problems with them even if the chickens are the same age and already integrated. You are dealing with living animals, not programmable robots. Each chicken has its own personality. People act as if their coops and runs are in separate entities, not combined in their chicken keeping system. When I cook I follow some recipes carefully. You need to get the proportions and timing right when making jelly or baking a cake. But when I'm making stew or chicken broth I don't have those limitations. I follow a basic framework but have a lot of freedom within those guidelines. The guidelines are there to point you in the right direction, they are not laws of nature. Rant over, sort of.

Chickens do not understand the concept of coop space versus run space. The concept they get is "if they need room is it available?" That can be either in the coop or in the run. If you keep them locked in the coop and out of the run then the run is not available. It might as well not be there. But it is there so you need to plan to use it.

Is your run predator safe? Would you be comfortable leaving your pop door open all night, knowing that if a predator got into your run your chickens are definitely not safe? Some people have this which can make this process a lot easier. It affects what you can do.

Your 4-month-olds are not laying yet. My flock and set-up are totally different from yours. I have an 8x12 feet coop and over 2,000 square feet of run space. Until my pullets start laying they form a sub-flock, totally avoiding the adults during the day and not roosting together at night. There are exceptions, there always are, but this makes my process so easy. You don't have this luxury.

It is possible yours will quickly become one happy flock, staying together during the day and sleeping on the same roosts at night. This does not happen often enough to count on it but it can possibly happen. What I'd expect to happen with yours is that the young ones would stay in the coop when the adults are outside or vice versa. They are avoiding them. Mine usually form both of these groups outside but when I have chicks still hanging out in the coop, my hens tend to ignore them when the hen goes in to lay an egg. Not sure what will happen with your facilities and just two hens.

I read a lot of stories on here where a hen will go out of her way to attack any young one. It doesn't matter if the young ones are trying to avoid her, she still attacks at every opportunity. I've never seen that with my flock, maybe because I have so much space, but enough people I trust on here have seen it that I believe it is really possible. You can read a lot of theories why she does that but the theories don't really matter if it is happening.

Those chicks are old enough so cold weather is not a factor, especially with our winters down here.

I just saw your last post about construction. Good! It is possible you could just throw them together and they will sort it out but I would not count on that. I think it is a great idea to have a place where you can separate them immediately if you have a problem. Aart's guidelines for integration work the majority of the time. They are a good outline to follow.

On quarantine, where are you getting them? If they are coming from a flock that has been isolated from any new birds for a couple of months they have been in quarantine. Would you trust the person you are getting them from to tell you if anything is wrong? If they are coming from a place where they have been exposed to outside chickens in the past month or two that is a different situation.

Then you have flock immunities. Some flocks develop an immunity to certain diseases or parasites so they are never affected by them but they can pass that disease or parasite onto other chickens. This could be your new birds, it could be your existing birds. Quarantine is not set up to handle those. One easy example of this is Coccidiosis. Chickens quickly develop an immunity to the parasite that causes this disease so they won't be affected no matter how long the quarantine. When you get new birds it is a good idea to treat them for mites, lice, and worms as these are easy to transmit.
If you wait and get two pullets that are laying they should act like adults. They will still have to sort out the pecking order. Sometimes this is pretty quick and really peaceful. Sometimes it involves fighting. Usually it is over with pretty quickly. If they are not laying yet you may have to deal with keeping them separate during the day and at night for a while.

You are dealing with living animals so you don't get guarantees. Sometimes this is easy, sometimes not. People do this all of the time, usually successfully. Good luck!

 

[BonnieBlue]

People get so hung up on magic numbers, as if they don't live in a reality world. The 4 x 10 space numbers are guidelines. They are way more than enough room for a lot of people but occasionally you can run into problems with them even if the chickens are the same age and already integrated. You are dealing with living animals, not programmable robots. Each chicken has its own personality. People act as if their coops and runs are in separate entities, not combined in their chicken keeping system. When I cook I follow some recipes carefully. You need to get the proportions and timing right when making jelly or baking a cake. But when I'm making stew or chicken broth I don't have those limitations. I follow a basic framework but have a lot of freedom within those guidelines. The guidelines are there to point you in the right direction, they are not laws of nature. Rant over, sort of.

Chickens do not understand the concept of coop space versus run space. The concept they get is "if they need room is it available?" That can be either in the coop or in the run. If you keep them locked in the coop and out of the run then the run is not available. It might as well not be there. But it is there so you need to plan to use it.

Is your run predator safe? Would you be comfortable leaving your pop door open all night, knowing that if a predator got into your run your chickens are definitely not safe? Some people have this which can make this process a lot easier. It affects what you can do.

Your 4-month-olds are not laying yet. My flock and set-up are totally different from yours. I have an 8x12 feet coop and over 2,000 square feet of run space. Until my pullets start laying they form a sub-flock, totally avoiding the adults during the day and not roosting together at night. There are exceptions, there always are, but this makes my process so easy. You don't have this luxury.

It is possible yours will quickly become one happy flock, staying together during the day and sleeping on the same roosts at night. This does not happen often enough to count on it but it can possibly happen. What I'd expect to happen with yours is that the young ones would stay in the coop when the adults are outside or vice versa. They are avoiding them. Mine usually form both of these groups outside but when I have chicks still hanging out in the coop, my hens tend to ignore them when the hen goes in to lay an egg. Not sure what will happen with your facilities and just two hens.

I read a lot of stories on here where a hen will go out of her way to attack any young one. It doesn't matter if the young ones are trying to avoid her, she still attacks at every opportunity. I've never seen that with my flock, maybe because I have so much space, but enough people I trust on here have seen it that I believe it is really possible. You can read a lot of theories why she does that but the theories don't really matter if it is happening.

Those chicks are old enough so cold weather is not a factor, especially with our winters down here.

I just saw your last post about construction. Good! It is possible you could just throw them together and they will sort it out but I would not count on that. I think it is a great idea to have a place where you can separate them immediately if you have a problem. Aart's guidelines for integration work the majority of the time. They are a good outline to follow.

On quarantine, where are you getting them? If they are coming from a flock that has been isolated from any new birds for a couple of months they have been in quarantine. Would you trust the person you are getting them from to tell you if anything is wrong? If they are coming from a place where they have been exposed to outside chickens in the past month or two that is a different situation.

Then you have flock immunities. Some flocks develop an immunity to certain diseases or parasites so they are never affected by them but they can pass that disease or parasite onto other chickens. This could be your new birds, it could be your existing birds. Quarantine is not set up to handle those. One easy example of this is Coccidiosis. Chickens quickly develop an immunity to the parasite that causes this disease so they won't be affected no matter how long the quarantine. When you get new birds it is a good idea to treat them for mites, lice, and worms as these are easy to transmit.
If you wait and get two pullets that are laying they should act like adults. They will still have to sort out the pecking order. Sometimes this is pretty quick and really peaceful. Sometimes it involves fighting. Usually it is over with pretty quickly. If they are not laying yet you may have to deal with keeping them separate during the day and at night for a while.

You are dealing with living animals so you don't get guarantees. Sometimes this is easy, sometimes not. People do this all of the time, usually successfully. Good luck!

I would be getting them from a friend that I have known for quite a while and know that she does the best she can to keep problems at bay through good hygiene, and treats for problems. Her chickens are pets as much as her dog is.

 

[Tennessee Great Granny]

I have two hens that are 1.5 years old this month. I have a coop that is 15.5 sqft and a run that is 56 sqft. I would like to get two pullets who are approximately 4 months old. I know that the coop is just inches under the 4 sqft recommended per bird, but the run is over the 10 sqft.

I was wanting to get two pullets so that it is 2/2 for old/new and hope that will make blending easier for everyone. Should I wait till the pullets are closer to laying? Or is 4 months old enough?

I don't have any way to keep them seperated. It is going to have to be "ok girls, here are your new little sisters", and hope for the best.

I have introduced lots of birds to the older birds. I'm always growing and selling and hatching and selling babies. I had a bunch of birds, 24 females and 1 male but BIG dogs chewed through the steel wire fencing and killed off half the flock including our rooster. We've got them confined to just the coop for now. It helps reduce their trauma after the carnage. We are also making repairs to the oversized run so no cane corso can chew the wiring (cattle stock panel reinforced). I also was the beneficiary to a young pullet and roo from a person I have bumped into at our local flock swap meets. The male introduced easily enough but the female was getting plucked like you would not believe and she was unhappy and traumatized. Right now she is cohabitating within one of the three turkey coops. She gets along with our half blind turkey, they are buddies. Often when the run is up and running I take a large dog cage and put the victim inside of it within the run. When it is dark at night we reintroduce the victim into the night coop (warmer and safer from predators) and first thing in the morning the victim is back into the cage for their protection. So far this method over time seems to integrate a newby into the flock who is having a rough time. If we can't get her integrated soon though I plan to set her up within the run into one of the nursery coops. We used to have 3 nursery coops but are revamping the entire run so babies don't escape as easily. I don't know how many we will wind up with. I will place her into a brand new nursery coop though because the older gals return to the nurseries where they were born when they get broody. She will either be joined by some other females or she'll be on her own. The male will be able to join her. So will other females if they wanted to but the hens often don't because they prefer one nursery over the others. In the spring we'll want to have babies anyway. I start hatching out eggs to be ready 2-3 weeks before Easter. Mom gets some babies and I sell the rest. I also hatch out bunches too! I just know when they get picked on they need hiding places for safety. I have all sorts of pet ladders and stumps etc for them to hide around in the run, including a chicken tunnel made from chicken wire. It's what works for us. The run may look a mess with all those hiding spots in it, but the chickens love it and call it home.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Then I'd talk to her about health problems she has seen and make my quarantine decision from that.

 

[aart]

I would be getting them from a friend that I have known for quite a while

If you both visit each others chickens regularly, quarantine may well be a moot point.
Space for integration is still an issue.
More space removes many problems during integration.

 

[Mrs. K]

A lot depends on how your space is set up. Is your run a big open space where every chicken can see every other chicken 100% of the time. If so add clutter, that chickens can get out of sight and away from each other. Add roosts, platforms, mini walls. Tuck feed bowls so that a bird eating at one, can't see a bird eating at another.

A trick that I have used, is to let the original birds outside of the coop/run, and lock them out, while locking the new birds inside the coop/run. Feed along the fence. This is basically 'see without touching' without building anything. At night, put the new ones in the dog crate.

Do this a couple of days, if you always keep the old birds confined, they will stay close to the coop/run. This lets the new birds get some territorial rights and lets them explore the coop and run without being chased for their lives.

You could also alternate, lock the old birds in the dog crate, let the new ones explore keeping everyone in the run. After a couple of days, let them all mix together very close to dark. The urge to roost is stronger than the urge to fight, and they will go to roost. Do get down there early in the morning.

Once in a while, one of the old girls is heartless. Keep her locked up alone for a while if that happens. If she positively won't quit, add pin less peepers to her. They really help in small set ups.

Mrs K