Alternative and Natural Wormer's...

[EggSighted4Life]

Hello and good morning fellow BYCer's!

This thread is focused on those who use alternative worming methods such as DE, pumpkin seeds, herbs, red pepper flakes, ACV, etc AND are willing to put up before and after fecal float with species and load count numbers to help stop the arguing as to whether they actually work or are a false sense of security.

Now I personally believe that most will not work (on infestations) and I don't use them. But I want to see some numbers from members that tell a real to life story since most worm species will never be seen in dropping and many folks assume that their method is working. No matter how many times I ask... NOT ONE has been willing to get floats. I understand that cost $... but so does treating what you don't have and not treating what you might have.

Now listen... this thread is NOT to argue what we feel does or does not work... so please don't waste anyone's time posting links to studies or making points, we can all find things that back out points of view and it's likely already in another thread somewhere... I'm asking for personal real life information.

For what it's worth... I have seen worm "symptoms" such as muddy bumm, yellow frothy poo, or one hen with constant runs. (it was a personal internal issue for that gal). In 10 years... I have not YET had to treat for internal parasites at my location... as my floats came back negative...exception once was a set of chicks with coccidiosis when put out to pasture full time with no prior exposure to the soil. Therefor in addition to my personal belief that *most* alternative wormers are wasting time and energy (partly possibly due to inaccurate dosing)... I have not had the opportunity to test any of those methods myself. (perfectly happy to be shown differently if possible )

So if you are willing to participate in expanding the understanding of our truly fantastic and caring community, please share your float report & cost, whether it was done by a local vet, you with your own microscope, or by mail, also if it was a passive or centrifuge spun float along with your environmental factors (location & weather), what method, the dose, and the length of treatment... or any other relevant information that might be helpful and I have forgotten to mention. Again, I'm not asking opinions... I am asking for numbers. It should be noted... this is NOT about proving anything to me... but about sharing verified, documented experiences with this animal loving community.

Thanks in advance for being a wonderful contributing member of this community!

Ready, set, GO!

 

[ChocolateMouse]

I'm curious - these sorts of studies have been done with real controls in real lab settings and cited before countless times with the actual scientific conclusion being exactly the sort of thing that would provide controversy. They work, but only sorta. They reduce worm loads enough to be therapeutic but not to cure serious infestations.

Is there a reason that those studies and that conclusion is insufficient?

 

[EggSighted4Life]

I'm curious - these sorts of studies have been done with real controls in real lab settings and cited before countless times with the actual scientific conclusion being exactly the sort of thing that would provide controversy. They work, but only sorta. They reduce worm loads enough to be therapeutic but not to cure serious infestations.

Is there a reason that those studies and that conclusion is insufficient?

So many folks arguing... are studies any good if YOU can't replicate them.

Too many pharmaceutical sponsors... possibly paying off or skewed reporting to keep their products high on the market.

Everyone on here willing to share their method, with claims they never seen symptoms of internal parasite... yet treat anyways and unwilling to get floats to check their real numbers.

Yes, those links are often using a specific pumpkin species, and folks are feeding random pumpkin species... are they or are they not getting results?

Why not expand our community data... with real life back yard verifiable numbers?

For so many they think it's cheaper to treat than get a float.. what if their float proved they don't need to treat... saving them time, effort, $, exposure... and giving more understanding of PERSONAL load before jumping on a bandwagon and treating every so many months because that's what folks said they needed to.

The thing is I've read and interpret the studies just fine. But many folks will not accept them the way they might understand something being said by a friend with real experience.

So I am looking for community sharing... with numbers conducted by our personal vets... who we should either trust or find a new one. Something that hits a little closer to home MIGHT have more of an impact than a bunch of big incomprehensible random words.

Big pharma works... but who trusts them... with the government in the pocket of lobbyist.. we have the power to gain and keep real knowledge.. not be dumbed down over and over... taking us farther from our roots and from our food... I'm trying to empower our community... with knowledge from within... since we do all have our best interest at heart and not that of big pharm or big chicken.

I'm trying to get folks to test and share... while not being under attack for their practice or putting them on the defensive. All I'm asking for is an open conversation with the alternative/permaculture/natural/organic folks! Maybe show ME another way.

 

[casportpony]

re willing to put up before and after fecal float with species and load count numbers

Hopefully someone will be willing to do this.

 

[CCUK]

Here's one. I have been struggling to get redmite under control on my coops for a couple of years. It's been a damage limitation exercise more so. I have used all the routine permethrin sprays, powders, smoke bombs etc. I've even been in with a blow torch trying to burn there asses! Still couldn't get rid of them. This year I rehome four hens from a friend as she wasn't actually allowed to keep them where she lived. She gave me all her associated chicken stuff including a big tub of allmite which is diatom. We'll I decided to use it and after a couple of weeks no more mites! Was I just lucky and the mites decided they didn't like the taste of my chickens any more? Or did this actually work? I don't know but I don't have mites anymore. People are quick to throw methods in the rubbish myself included but this stuff worked for me.

 

[Shadrach]

I don't think what I wrote was very constructive so I've deleted it.
I don't have to read the thread so...........

 

[EggSighted4Life]

People are quick to throw methods in the rubbish myself included but this stuff worked for me.

I agree and I am one of them!

Thanks for your thought and sharing for your experience with the external parasites! Looks like Allmite is a brand name and they actually suggest a two part system including the diatom and also that you first use a product called Poultry Shield...

I KNOW that DE is sometimes effective at killing external parasites in certain environments, even though that is not the case for me. I'm GLAD something has finally worked for you.

Interesting to see the permethrin on the other hand not working for you after it has been so effective here. I very much expect to see a wide array of different experiences in the internal parasite treatment discussion if I can get anybody to share without bashing.

I mean there's gotta be someone treating this way who wants to know where they truly stand and what impact their methods may or may not have on their beloved animals parasite load... with ALL the over thinkers I've met on here... come on share your data, friends!

 

[pennyJo1960]

I would like to follow along never wormed a bird neither as a child on the farm nor as a adult having them now as old lady farmer type but never seem any in the poop

 

[BigBlueHen53]

Good topic, thanks, @EggSighted4Life!

 

[pennyJo1960]

One so may different theories but can create mean or nasty replies if not done in a good creative atmosphere