Ameraucana Genetics Clarification

[Amer]

In trying to figure all of this out, I found this AI generated answer to "Black Ameraucana rooster and Blue Ameraucana Hen produce what offspring". Now, I'm thoroughly confused. Your input is appreciated. What say you?:

Per Google search...
"When breeding a black Ameraucana rooster with a blue Ameraucana hen, you can expect a mix of chicks with primarily "splash" coloration, meaning they will have a combination of black and blue feathers with a mottled appearance, often with white patches; essentially a blend of the black and blue genes, resulting in a "splash" pattern across the offspring.

Key points to remember:

• "Splash" pattern:
  The blue gene in Ameraucanas is considered incompletely dominant, meaning when combined with black, it produces a "splash" pattern where the color is diluted, creating a mix of black and blue feathers
  
  
  
  
  
• Variation in offspring:
  While most chicks will exhibit the "splash" pattern, some may lean more towards black or blue depending on how the genes are inherited.

AI doesn't understand chicken genetics at all. Every time I've tested it with a chicken question, it's been wrong.
However, I happen to know a black bird bred to a blue bird you will only get black and blue offspring.
Never splash.
The kippenjungle calculator is far more accurate when it comes to chicken genetics (though by no means error free)

https://kippenjungle.nl/chickencalculator.html

 

[AinaWGSD]

In trying to figure all of this out, I found this AI generated answer to "Black Ameraucana rooster and Blue Ameraucana Hen produce what offspring". Now, I'm thoroughly confused. Your input is appreciated. What say you?:

Per Google search...
"When breeding a black Ameraucana rooster with a blue Ameraucana hen, you can expect a mix of chicks with primarily "splash" coloration, meaning they will have a combination of black and blue feathers with a mottled appearance, often with white patches; essentially a blend of the black and blue genes, resulting in a "splash" pattern across the offspring.

Key points to remember:

• "Splash" pattern:
  The blue gene in Ameraucanas is considered incompletely dominant, meaning when combined with black, it produces a "splash" pattern where the color is diluted, creating a mix of black and blue feathers
  
  
  
  
  
• Variation in offspring:
  While most chicks will exhibit the "splash" pattern, some may lean more towards black or blue depending on how the genes are inherited.

The Google ai result is absolute bull. That's not how blue works.

Blue  is considered incomplete dominant. One copy of the gene dilutes black to blue. Two copies dilutes it even further to splash. In order for splash to occur the bird has to inherit a gene for blue dilution from each parent. Since black birds don't have any copies of the blue gene it is impossible for them to produce any splash offspring because their chicks can only inherit the non-blue gene from them.

When breeding a black rooster with a blue hen, the chicks will inherit one non-blue (black) gene from the rooster. Since blue is caused by having one copy of the blue gene and one copy of the non-blue gene the chicks have a 50/50 chance of inheriting the blue gene from the hen. So the chocks from a black rooster and a blue hen will either be black or blue, but  never splash.

The only way to get splash is breeding blue to blue, blue to splash, or splash to splash.

 

[Slothinc]

AI can’t be trusted.

 

[JesWith3]

AI doesn't understand chicken genetics at all. Every time I've tested it with a chicken question, it's been wrong.
However, I happen to know a black bird bred to a blue bird you will only get black and blue offspring.
Never splash.
The kippenjungle calculator is far more accurate when it comes to chicken genetics (though by no means error free)

https://kippenjungle.nl/chickencalculator.html

Gotcha! Thanks so much!

 

[JesWith3]

The Google ai result is absolute bull. That's not how blue works.

Blue  is considered incomplete dominant. One copy of the gene dilutes black to blue. Two copies dilutes it even further to splash. In order for splash to occur the bird has to inherit a gene for blue dilution from each parent. Since black birds don't have any copies of the blue gene it is impossible for them to produce any splash offspring because their chicks can only inherit the non-blue gene from them.

When breeding a black rooster with a blue hen, the chicks will inherit one non-blue (black) gene from the rooster. Since blue is caused by having one copy of the blue gene and one copy of the non-blue gene the chicks have a 50/50 chance of inheriting the blue gene from the hen. So the chocks from a black rooster and a blue hen will either be black or blue, but  never splash.

The only way to get splash is breeding blue to blue, blue to splash, or splash to splash.

Thank you for this breakdown and for sharing your knowledge. It is appreciated.

 

[NatJ]

I need and want a true Ameraucana roo for my planned goals.

If you need a "true Ameraucana" rooster but leakage is not a problem, then what traits are important?

He's a beautiful bird and I don't care if his color genetics are "muddied", so long as he produces blue egg layers.

If the blue egg gene is the really important point, I would use the blue egg gene test that was already suggested.

Unfortunately, it is possible to have beautiful Ameraucanas or Cream Legbars that look just right and do not have two blue egg genes. That would especially happen if the breeder was focusing on appearance instead of egg color.

From what you've said of this breeder, the egg color genes of her flock will be just as good or bad as the flock she got her first birds from. If her starting birds were carrying the not-blue egg gene, that's not really her fault, but it would mean some of her chicks would have the not-blue egg gene. And until someone does a genetic test or raises up a bunch of pullets and looks at the egg color, then tells her, she won't even know.

 

[JesWith3]

Ok, so, but he DOES look Ameraucana (Splash) to you all otherwise (save for the leakage)and not Easter Egger? How probable is it that his "Black" father was so dark blue that he appeared black to the untrained eye?
Those questions aside, I did contact the seller and let her know that the further into this conundrum we go, the more uncertain and insecure I become in my purchase and asked for a partial refund.
I told her that I do not mind eating the $20 shipping fee since she used her packaging materials and paid to have them shipped. Do you think that's fair? The dozen was $40 + $20 shipping.
$40 is a lot when they'll be going straight in the fridge (though not a far cry from eating egg prices at the big box stores, truth be told!!) I may try to hatch out a few just to see what we get and I wouldn't mind having a couple of the hens, but I want to be sure I've got a pure Ameraucana Rooster for my flock, so, I'll be shopping elsewhere (from Ameraucana Alliance list of breeders).
I just want to be sure I'm handling this properly and if it's a fair request. I appreciate all of you and all of your guidance so much!

 

[JesWith3]

If you need a "true Ameraucana" rooster but leakage is not a problem, then what traits are important?


If the blue egg gene is the really important point, I would use the blue egg gene test that was already suggested.

Unfortunately, it is possible to have beautiful Ameraucanas or Cream Legbars that look just right and do not have two blue egg genes. That would especially happen if the breeder was focusing on appearance instead of egg color.

From what you've said of this breeder, the egg color genes of her flock will be just as good or bad as the flock she got her first birds from. If her starting birds were carrying the not-blue egg gene, that's not really her fault, but it would mean some of her chicks would have the not-blue egg gene. And until someone does a genetic test or raises up a bunch of pullets and looks at the egg color, then tells her, she won't even know.

Right on. I wish I'd read this before my last reply to this thread, but it's something to think about and we'll see what the seller says to my request for a partial refund. You all are absolutely right. The only important thing to me is that he is Ameraucana (I don't care if he's all colors of the rainbow...the more the merrier!) and he going to throw two blue genes. Thank you for your input.

 

[Amer]

Ok, so, but he DOES look Ameraucana (Splash) to you all otherwise (save for the leakage)and not Easter Egger? How probable is it that his "Black" father was so dark blue that he appeared black to the untrained eye?
Those questions aside, I did contact the seller and let her know that the further into this conundrum we go, the more uncertain and insecure I become in my purchase and asked for a partial refund.
I told her that I do not mind eating the $20 shipping fee since she used her packaging materials and paid to have them shipped. Do you think that's fair? The dozen was $40 + $20 shipping.
$40 is a lot when they'll be going straight in the fridge (though not a far cry from eating egg prices at the big box stores, truth be told!!) I may try to hatch out a few just to see what we get and I wouldn't mind having a couple of the hens, but I want to be sure I've got a pure Ameraucana Rooster for my flock, so, I'll be shopping elsewhere (from Ameraucana Alliance list of breeders).
I just want to be sure I'm handling this properly and if it's a fair request. I appreciate all of you and all of your guidance so much!

It's very possible his father could look black but be blue, I've seen some very tricky blues.

 

[Slothinc]

This
I had a lavender blue hen once and she was very confusing.

Amer, did your lavender blue hen look any different than a regular black with lavender? Did you only find out through test breeding or is there any way to tell by looking at the bird? Do you have a picture of her? Thanks!!