Bob Blosl's Heritage Large Fowl Thread

[TACEYPERKINS]

Thank you Bob for answering the breeding question, that was awesome advice! I am going to start as soon as I can in the spring.

Quick question... Do you work on your breeding/hatching in the fall too? Or do you just grow out your youngsters up through fall and winter? If you do hatch, do they grow up smaller?
~Tacey

 

[fowlman01]

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I guess that would be VS. He gave me my APA lic test.
Walt

 

[Robert Blosl]

correct Walt. Now this is a hint to you out there V S Centralia Washington have you ever met this guy. When he shook your hand he had a grip that could make you fall to your knees.

He is gone but I will never forget this wealer dealer chicken man.
b0b

 

[fowlman01]

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Boy, do I have stories about him! He was a good man.

Walt

 

[Jared77]

It makes sense and I followed a fairly similar plan with my finches. I read the article http://bloslspoutlryfarm.tripod.com/id61.html and have a few questions.

If all the birds are related then is it worth it to keep back so many cockrels? Why are you keeping back 5 or so? Why not keep back 1 or 2 as they all so closely related? Your breeding brother to sister which will double up on the good and bad traits.

Then with the offspring of year two, yes you'd want to breed father to daughter as your doubling up on his traits. (She carries 50% of his genetics and he's got 100% of his genetics to offer) so it makes sense. Id also breed son to mother to double up on her traits (he carries 50% of the mothers traits and she's got 100% of her traits) since she was desirable otherwise you wouldn't have used her from the beginning. I've done that cross with great success. Obviously it takes good hens to make it worthwhile but I think too often many folks discount what the mother brings to the table genetically.

But if the son is better than the father why use him at all in year 2? He doesn't offer anything in the way of diversity either in this breeding format. Why not do a brother x sister breeding instead? You'd double up on more of the desireable traits that the father has even faster than a father x daughter breeding. And you'd double up on the traits of the original mother so you could get some really nice stuff. Plus since the original father/mother are from the same hatch you've already doubling up on the traits with the year 1 breeding.

Your results speak for themselves, I'm just tossing out something I wondered about when I've read these posts. I hope I don't sound like I'm attacking you that's not my intention. I'm asking because I want to learn because obviously it works for you. I'm perfectly ok with tight line breeding. I'm just wondering about all the extra males. I'm trying to keep the consistancy up and the total number of birds down. A just in case breeder is one thing but an extra is another and they'd need to be moved on.

Your thoughts?

 

[Robert Blosl]

Here is the latest picture of him at the South West Washington Fair he was a supt for over 40 years.

He was installed into the Rhode Island Hall of Famer about ten years ago. He was the President of the Junior Rhode Island Red Club in 1935 and he could spot a good R I Red a mile away. He always told me look for the Brick. bob

 

[fowlman01]

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Here are my thoughts.
I do use mother to son and keep the two line running so that I can cross back and forth as needed down the road. You end up with two lines that are very close, but slightly different, so there is usually no reason to introduce new blood. I would keep at least five males because you never know what might happen. Predator, illness whatever and if you only have one or two, your breeding program is pretty much done. I typically will give birds to someone I trust...usually a 4Her to raise to further insure that I have access to more males with the same bloodlines. I have had some major kills by predators (19 to 25 birds in one night). That is not much of a problem now because I finally got smart and I now have an electric fence. Even with that, a mink can find a way in and they kill everything in a pen. In addition.....my birds don't get sick...but they could and then again you would be wiped out. I don't keep all of the same breed in one location on my property for all those reasons.

What I am saying is 1 to 3 males can go very quickly and I don't want to lose years of work because I didn't have an insurance plan.

I usually add this disclaimer: This is just how I do it and it may not work for others.

Walt

 

[fowlman01]

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I loved that guy!

Walt

 

[Jared77]

So you have 2 nearly identical lines sharing almost identical genetic material. So where do you seperate the lines? With the F1 chicks? Does that make up the 2 families? Fathers and F1 daughters in one pen, mothers and F1 sons in another? When put together it should work because they are related (they are cousins for lack of a better term) and you've selected for the same traits in both groups so you maintain consistancy. Right? I want to make sure I understand it.

Then that still begs the question, what do you do when you start making the F0/F1 breedings and the F2 sons and daughters that are produced that are better than the F1 birds and that much better than the F0 birds? Which should be better than their parents otherwise you shouldn't repeat that pairing because obviously it didn't work.

Do those F2 birds get put into another pen to become yet another line? Who do those F2 birds get bred to? The original F0 birds? But the F2 birds are noticably better than the F0 birds so that begs the question....

Why take a superior bird back to something that's inferior and carries a majority of the same genetics?

As I said in a previous post this is off a single batch of eggs that someone was kind enough to send to someone who wants to get started in X heritage breed. Its hard enough to find quality birds in many breeds that are classified as heritage, let alone a number of quality birds to have 2 distinctly different lines to work with. I'm just trying to outline a breeding plan for the future beyond F2 with these very closely related birds.

 

[Germaine_11.20]

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I loved that guy!

Walt

I wish I could have known him, he looks like a wonderful man. Walt, I am going to pm you about the electric fence. How hard it was, what brand ect...

I am enjoying this thread, thanks to all of you.