Bob Blosl's Heritage Large Fowl Thread

[Fred's Hens]

KathyinMO sent us our Barred Rocks. It is likely they are direct descendants from E. B. Thompson's ringlet birds, the Mr. E. B. Thompson of which Bob spoke earlier. They are something to behold. It is now our responsibility to keep them up to snuff. The guidance given on these threads has been invaluable.

We've some other birds that will need some work. We will work with them for 3-5 years. But, if we cannot push them back to where they belong, we will get a better line from someone who has preserved them more carefully.

We've still some other birds. These "mutts" aren't likely to have the genetics to do anything with, even if one tried for 10 years. The genetics are simply no longer there.

Early on, Bob stated a truism that I believe is very, very important to those just starting out. Get the very, very best trio or small group you possibly can secure.

 

[CluckyCharms]

But at the end of the day, we can only work with what we've got. For these guys that have been so fabulously successful with their lines, I wonder how they got started .... Walt? Robert? NYReds, anybody else?

I think the part about "we can only work with what we've got" is the part that bothers me. I don't mind working my tail end off to bring about a desired result...that's what it is all about, but it's the part about it taking years...and years..and years, and then more years, to bring that "desired result" to any sort of standard, repeating result...that's hard to swallow. Some of us don't have decades upon decades to bring about the result we are seeking. I'm just aggravated that I didn't introduce myself to chickens until this age and that part, is my fault. Quite honestly I just didn't find them interesting enough to care. The only reason we started was because hubby wanted fresh eggs. That desire to have fresh, wholesome eggs on his part...turned into me being absolutely obsessed with the creatures that produce the eggs. He often says he created a monster.

When I think about all the things I could have done and the things I might have been able to accomplish, had I started this 20 years ago...the thought just makes me sick. I think that's why I'm so gung-ho and "LETS GO" about it, is because there are so many breeds that need help and.... there's time left for neither myself nor the breeds I've come to obsess over.

And...I *am* talking about certain heritage breeds I have my eye on. Sure, most on this thread have excellent examples of those breeds, but when you look in other areas of this forum and on other sites, those birds don't look *anything* like they are supposed to in regard to their true heritage type...yet people still call them the same thing even though they're not! So if we don't save those *right now*, instead of years from now when we're "more experienced with the simpler breeds instead of rare ones" or wait years from now when we're more "knowledgeable" - who is to say any of the breeds we wanted to save will still be around then?

 

[BarnGoddess01]

Quote:
I've also been told, start with "junk" and all you will get is "junk" which I firmly believe at this point in my oh so limited career. So something good MUST have happened for these guys at some point. Some how, they ended up with a good bird. Then they used sound judgement, a good eye, instincts, etc., to move forward with a sound plan that worked. (That's the, "it takes years part".) But I can't believe they actually started with junk and just had random good luck moving forward. Where did that first good bird come from?

 

[3riverschick]

There is a natural reluctance about accepting an olive branch from someone who beat you over the head with it.
Best to skip the whitewash and stick to chickens.

================================
That's priceless!

 

[cgmccary]

My responses in bold.
Quote:

 

[CluckyCharms]

I've also been told, start with "junk" and all you will get is "junk" which I firmly believe at this point in my oh so limited career. So something good MUST have happened for these guys at some point. Some how, they ended up with a good bird. Then they used sound judgement, a good eye, instincts, etc., to move forward with a sound plan that worked. (That's the, "it takes years part".) But I can't believe they actually started with junk and just had random good luck moving forward. Where did that first good bird come from?

Maybe it's something to do with who you know? I don't know...I would think contacts are a big part of it.

 

[3riverschick]

When I think about all the things I could have done and the things I might have been able to accomplish, had I started this 20 years ago...the thought just makes me sick. I think that's why I'm so gung-ho and "LETS GO" about it, is because there are so many breeds that need help and.... there's time left for neither myself nor the breeds I've come to obsess over.
=====
Clucky,
Yes, I understand how you feel. I am 61 . Been hanging out with different breeds of poultry since 2004-2005 and 2009 till now. Just now getting my "best birds to start with".
So perhaps Hubby would go with this scenario...replace what you have with a SQ trio. You would still have just 3 birds. You would still be learning for those 2 years. Breed the trio, keep just 2 birds the first and second years. This let's you learn how to cull, a skill critical to success. By the third year, you would only have 7 birds. About what you have now.
Generally, you will find only one keeper in every 10 birds. That means you could hatch out 20-30 chicks a year. Plenty to learn from. Sell the rest and if the quality is great across the board, donate some breeding trios or chicks to the 4-H kids. But you would be learning and training your artist's eye with the best. If you decided you didn't want to pursue poultry in 2 years, you could sell them to another 'up and comer' who was interested in your breed. If you do decide to proceed, you could enlarge your operation then. But you wouldn't be stuck and frustrated with lesser quality birds while you are trying to learn. It takes just as much effort and expense to care for the lesser fowl as it does the SQ birds. If you wanted to, you could show a keeper from next years hatch. Don't show the original trio as they are your foundation.
Best,
Karen

 

[BarnGoddess01]

When I think about all the things I could have done and the things I might have been able to accomplish, had I started this 20 years ago...the thought just makes me sick. I think that's why I'm so gung-ho and "LETS GO" about it, is because there are so many breeds that need help and.... there's time left for neither myself nor the breeds I've come to obsess over.
=====
Clucky,
Yes, I understand how you feel. I am 61 . Been hanging out with different breeds of poultry since 2004-2005 and 2009 till now. Just now getting my "best birds to start with".
So perhaps Hubby would go with this scenario...replace what you have with a SQ trio. You would still have just 3 birds. You would still be learning for those 2 years. Breed the trio, keep just 2 birds the first and second years. This let's you learn how to cull, a skill critical to success. By the third year, you would only have 7 birds. About what you have now.
Generally, you will find only one keeper in every 10 birds. That means you could hatch out 20-30 chicks a year. Plenty to learn from. Sell the rest and if the quality is great across the board, donate some breeding trios or chicks to the 4-H kids. But you would be learning and training your artist's eye with the best. If you decided you didn't want to pursue poultry in 2 years, you could sell them to another 'up and comer' who was interested in your breed. If you do decide to proceed, you could enlarge your operation then. But you wouldn't be stuck and frustrated with lesser quality birds while you are trying to learn. It takes just as much effort and expense to care for the lesser fowl as it does the SQ birds. If you wanted to, you could show a keeper from next years hatch. Don't show the original trio as they are your foundation.
Best,
Karen

See, this goes against what my mentor is saying. With his established line, he produces approximately 25 per year. He insists, maybe 3 are culls. That's it.

 

[NYREDS]

& paid the $5
I've also been told, start with "junk" and all you will get is "junk" which I firmly believe at this point in my oh so limited career. So something good MUST have happened for these guys at some point. Some how, they ended up with a good bird. Then they used sound judgement, a good eye, instincts, etc., to move forward with a sound plan that worked. (That's the, "it takes years part".) But I can't believe they actually started with junk and just had random good luck moving forward. Where did that first good bird come from?

I'll tell you how I started & I suspect it might not be too different than Bob, Walt or any other breeder.
I grew up on a farm & we always had a flock of "Bantys" running around. Cross breeds to be sure & probably [if memory serves] mostly Old English Bantams. They were very colourful & lots of fun. Then I graduated to birds from Murray McMurray Hatchery. This was in the early 1960s & in those days McMurray maintained breeding flocks & produced a much better quality bird than they reportedly do now. Let me back up a step-before I ordered the McMurray chicks I bought a used 1958 edition of the APA Standard Of Perfection-I still have it. I studied that book 'till the pages started coming loose. Showed the McMurray birds for a couple of years & had some success with them-I told you they were better back then.
Side story: I also bought one pair of adult Blue Cochin Bantams from Strombergs. They came shipped Railway Express in a bean crate. SHowed them at the first ENYSPA show in Cobleskill, NY. The hen was Champion Bantam.
By then I had met some well known exhibitors at shows I had attended. An ABA Judge, Bruce Hagan, lived near me. He raised only Black Rosecomb Bantams. Mr Hagan, after some incessant nagging on my part, agreed to sell me a trio of Rosecombs. I went to pick them out & he left me & my 1958 Standard in a pen of about 40 young Rosecombs. I spent most of the morning there handling birds, checking the Standard, checking birds again. Finally I picked out the trio I wanted & paid the $5 price. Mr Hagan said he thought I might have picked out the best trio in the pen. Later that year I bought some really nice SC Dark Brrown Leghorn Banatms from another local breeder/exhibitor & got rid of all the McMurray birds. From then on I only bought birds from established lines. More than once I tried mixing lines sometimes successfull, often not. So, I never really started with"junk" & transformed it into something of quality. I'm firmly of the belief that you can't make a silk purse from a sows ear.

 

[Yard full o' rocks]

I think the part about "we can only work with what we've got" is the part that bothers me. I don't mind working my tail end off to bring about a desired result...that's what it is all about, but it's the part about it taking years...and years..and years, and then more years, to bring that "desired result" to any sort of standard, repeating result...that's hard to swallow. Some of us don't have decades upon decades to bring about the result we are seeking. I'm just aggravated that I didn't introduce myself to chickens until this age and that part, is my fault. Quite honestly I just didn't find them interesting enough to care. The only reason we started was because hubby wanted fresh eggs. That desire to have fresh, wholesome eggs on his part...turned into me being absolutely obsessed with the creatures that produce the eggs. He often says he created a monster.

When I think about all the things I could have done and the things I might have been able to accomplish, had I started this 20 years ago...the thought just makes me sick. I think that's why I'm so gung-ho and "LETS GO" about it, is because there are so many breeds that need help and.... there's time left for neither myself nor the breeds I've come to obsess over.

And...I *am* talking about certain heritage breeds I have my eye on. Sure, most on this thread have excellent examples of those breeds, but when you look in other areas of this forum and on other sites, those birds don't look *anything* like they are supposed to in regard to their true heritage type...yet people still call them the same thing even though they're not! So if we don't save those *right now*, instead of years from now when we're "more experienced with the simpler breeds instead of rare ones" or wait years from now when we're more "knowledgeable" - who is to say any of the breeds we wanted to save will still be around then?

Clucky,

A piece of advise from one only in the real "breeding side" of the hobby for 4 yrs now....so take that for what its worth

1. Look at the space you have available (coops, covered runs, brooders, grow out pens, etc) and how much space/facilities you are willing to commit to. I am focused (finally) on a single variety of plymouth rocks, Columbians. I have 3 large coops (6x8x8) each attached to an outdoor run approx 20x20 each. I have 2 smaller coops (4x4s) with 10x10 runs I use as grow out pens. Then I have 2 large brooders capable of holding about 2 dozen chicks each, up to about 6 weeks old. I hatch about 100 (+/-) chicks annually and keep roughly 1 in 10. It takes all of the aforementioned space to raise all the young ones to an age where you can comfortably cull without fear of tossing out a good one. For me that's about 8-10 months. After all the culling has taken place, these coops become breeding pens for the next season. I currently have breeding trios in each of the 3 large ones.

2. The experts tell you to tackle the simpler breeds first for one reason.....you are less likely to get frustrated and toss in the towel. Color patterned birds (as I am finding out first hand) are certainly more challenging than a solid colored bird. However, especially these guys here, the experts are always willing to give you advise if you ask, BUT, be willing to be thick skinned and accept constructive criticism. They won't purposely hurt your feelings, but instead speak from YEARS of experience and in most cases have gone through already whatever you might be dealing with.

3. As a personal opinion, I'd say pick 1 variety of 1 breed that you really like (simple or not) and put all of your energy and effort there. That's what I've done and it was only through Bob B here that I obtained my first trio a few falls back. The Columbian pattern is certainly not a simple variety, but one I really was drawn to and I've made a little progress with them....still a LONG way to go. You won't be able to "save all the breeds that need saving" but you WILL be able to make significant progress with the one you chose to work with. Remember, this is a hobby. It should be fun, it shouldn't be a "job".

Just my 2 cents worth for today

....now back to your regularly scheduled programming